Cooling questions

This is the place to discuss, or get help with any of your Type 4 questions.

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bushoarder
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Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:57 pm

My bus is running a Cali conversion type 4 and it runs well.

Oil temp gauge never goes above 75 degrees C which is too cold. I don’t have the thermostat fitted just now.

Any thoughts on why it might be so cool?

Stock t1 type tinware, t4 cooler.

Also, had a couple of people say that the heads will overheat on a Cali conversion due to lack of cooling air flowing around the exhaust stubs - anyone got any experience of this? I see lots of upright Porsche and Cali conversions about and they must be ok?


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oprn
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by oprn » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:39 pm

"Oil temp gauge never goes above 75 degrees C which is too cold.
Any thoughts on why it might be so cool?
I don’t have the thermostat fitted just now. "

I'm no expert on conversions but I think you may have answered your own question. Others with more experience may know better.

bushoarder
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 am

Type ones with no thermostat eventually heat up just slowly, I’ve done 30 min 70mph runs and it still shows cold.


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wreck
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Cooling questions

Post by wreck » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:47 am

Have you checked your gauge /sender is accurate ? what are your ambient temps ? The cali conversion works well and will push air around the exhaust ports as long as the lower tin is all there .
No matter where you go , there you are !

bushoarder
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:23 am

I have the type one lower tin not type 4 - I’m guessing you mean type 1 tins wreck?


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wreck
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by wreck » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:44 pm

I run the standard type 4 under cylinder tin and cut down type 4 lower tins , use extra ones for #1 and #3 on #4 and#2 if that makes any sense . It guides the air to the exhaust ports . If you don't have any issues with condensation in the oil I wouldn't be to concerned at the low oil temp .
No matter where you go , there you are !

NextGen
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by NextGen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

Funny it is nice to see your post, this is the 25 th anniversary of the Cali Style ( actually the name started somewhere, and it was not my idea, ha).
Ok the nice to see this post because you are one of many of my customers with the same issue and I get many mails but rarely are they posted.
I am an industrial designer so when I designed the Type IV Upright Conversion I figured the bug has been around for at least 82 years using a T-1 fanhousing, VW had plenty of time for it’s thousands of engineers to get it’s designer right. Yet in my mind, the T-4 was such a larger engine I was worried it would overheat. So I bought a very expensive remote cooler with thermostat to work when my stock cooler got hot. Besides the cooler, I figured I need the expensive steel braided oil lines with the super expensive connectors and sandwich plate adapter with thermos. . Like $600 of parts spent, only to sell it all years later at a swap meet for $50.
My oil could not reach running temp. , it took a while just to get to 120 f. if the outside temp. was below 70f . What drove me crazy was the car ran like crap because it was not at running temp and I did not put 2 & 2 together. So I wind up checking my timing and carbs????
Finally installed the Flaps and got rid of my 80c thermostat and put in the T-4 std, a 90c It let the engine get hot before opening the flaps.
OK the story is a T-4 was made for heavy buses, especially in lighter cars like a bug, it is hardy working.
Also as verified by Jake Raby, the T-4 heads are 1/3 larger then T-1 heads, which allows them to dissipate much more heat.
Don’t worry about the heads warping with the Cali Style, never have I heard that happening from any of my thousand customers – The T-1 fanhousing with thermostat is more than enough to keep the engine cool.
I rather this then it running hot and trying to cool it. I have seen 160 hp and up Cali Style bugs running all day no issues.
So I agree with Wreck .
Joe Cali
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
http://www.nextgen-usa.com
Next Generation-U.S.A.

Email: nextgenusa@optonline.net
or
joe.nextgenusa@gmail.com

bushoarder
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Thanks for your kind words. The Cali conversion works ace apart from the temp! It’s gotta come out for some other work so I’ll chuck on the flaps and t4 thermostat.

I’m using these tins not stock type 4:
Image

Should I swap these for:
Image

Here’s my engine:
Image
But now with Weber 40s. Image

The conversion:
ImageImage


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NextGen
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by NextGen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Very very nice!!! I forgot to mention, also I tell guys they should start with a T-1 oil cooler, it helps to raise the temp. Less work too it if it works for you, no need to expand the Doghouse. Running cool in a bus is amazing so count your blessing.
Joe Cali
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
http://www.nextgen-usa.com
Next Generation-U.S.A.

Email: nextgenusa@optonline.net
or
joe.nextgenusa@gmail.com

wreck
Posts: 196
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Cooling questions

Post by wreck » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:47 pm

Yes swap out to the type 4 under cylinder tin .
No matter where you go , there you are !

bushoarder
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:43 pm

Thanks all and appreciate the super feedback. I’ll replace the type 1 tins with type 4.
I spent ages making the type 4 cooler fit! I figured that the factory fitted the bigger cooler because the engine needed more cooling - I’ll double check my sender readings / gauge and get a head temp gauge too I think.
I’m loathed to swap the cooler out for type 1 just because it ‘feels’ wrong if that makes sense.

Fab advice though and thoughts on my above comments appreciated.


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raygreenwood
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by raygreenwood » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:58 am

Just to add a little semi-useful trivia to what Nextgen posted......everything he noted about the type 4 engine was correct....except.....NO....the type 4 engine was NOT designed for the bus. It was high jacked for use in the bus for the driving styles and temperatures of the North American market.

Design work for the type 4 engine started in the mid 1960's.....and its target was the type 4 vehicle.....the 411 and 412....which got that engine in 1968 in Europe.....and ran with it until the start of model year 1975. It went into the 914 next. The bus did not get it until 1972. Ray

NextGen
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by NextGen » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:48 pm

Ray, I stand corrected. Thanks. I was a 914 guy and went through the " in the U.S. it was a VW Porsche and in Europe it was a Porsche ". Porsche was supposed build the engine then, VW made the engine etc.

I did not know the 411 412 history. OK were does the 911-E come in .
Joe Cali
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
http://www.nextgen-usa.com
Next Generation-U.S.A.

Email: nextgenusa@optonline.net
or
joe.nextgenusa@gmail.com

bushoarder
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cooling questions

Post by bushoarder » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:37 pm

This is great reading! They are great engines in my opinion.
Is the consensus that I need to run the type 4 under tin as wreck comments? Joe, looking for your input here with your wealth of experience.


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raygreenwood
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Re: Cooling questions

Post by raygreenwood » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:07 pm

NextGen wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:48 pm
Ray, I stand corrected. Thanks. I was a 914 guy and went through the " in the U.S. it was a VW Porsche and in Europe it was a Porsche ". Porsche was supposed build the engine then, VW made the engine etc.

I did not know the 411 412 history. OK were does the 911-E come in .
The 911-E....was a 2.4L six....I think....with CIS injection. You may be thinking of the 912-E....which used the same engine basically as the 2.0L 914.....and that was 1976. Ray

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