Jetting + General advice for my 2.7L Type 4

[rioprelude]

I purchased a 2.7L Type4 engine from Jakob @ GetBackOnTrack about 4 years ago, and I'm finally ready to install it in my project vehicle. I wanted to verify the jetting, ignition, and steps to get it running after sitting for so long.

IMG_20180710_221923.jpg

Engine Specs:
DPR 78mm x 105mm Duetz Cylinders w/ JE Pistons
Webcam 86C
AMC Heads 46/38 Valves + dual springs w/ matching manifolds
Full flow Oil + Electric cooler (already in car w/ type 1 engine)
Horizontal 911 cooling

Carb Specs:
Rebuilt Dellorto DRLA 48mm carbs from BlackLine Racing:
Air: 220,
Main: 200,
Idle: .75,
Venturi: 40mm,
E-Tube: #2

Ignition:
MSD Distributer/Blaster Coil/6A Ignition (already in the car w/ the type 1 engine)

Exhaust:
Type 4 Sidewinder 1 5/8" from Tiger @ A-1 Performance w/ O-2 sensor bung

Questions:
1. Does the jetting seem close?
2. Do you think I need to replace the valve springs from sitting so long?
3. I remember seeing an old post about building oil pressure by manually spinning the pump before trying to crank?

Thanks!

[wreck]

I've a similar set up , 103x78 , scat C55 with 48 trijet Dellortos but with a bigger header , I'm still trying to find the right jet combination , right now I've 40mm vents 185 mains 195 airs with 45 enrichment jets . I've run 42mm vents with 205 mains with 195 airs with the enrichment jets blocked off ,(that had a lean midrange going from high 11's to mid 14's back to low 12s on a dyno run) all with the .2 emulsion .I've ordered .3 emulsions and will be trailing those. I'm down to a 63 idle jet with gives 13 to 1 cruise on the progression circuit .I found 75 idles way to rich and the engine would load up at idle .
I'd be inclined to remove the springs and at least get them checked for spring pressure . I spun the motor over on the starter with no plugs in it to get oil pressure , then fired it up .

[Steve Arndt]

Jakob is very active on his personal and business pages on facebook. Ask his advice on the springs. I would say you are fine to use them as is as a guess. Get his advice on break in oil / additives as well. That is critical.

[rioprelude]

@Wreck, I'll buy some additional jets and pick up an air/fuel ratio gauge to monitor the mixture ratio.

@Steve: I did ping him on Facebook, and he though the springs would be ok, but mentioned building oil pressure to protect the bearings.

Appreciate the feedback, just wanted to get everyone's input, since this is a pretty active forum.

Thanks!

[rioprelude]

I made some progress this week. I was able to install the CSP oil filter block off, oil cooler adapter w/ AN8 fittings, oil filler, and the KEP flywheel/clutch/pressure plate.

I was able to get the engine installed, after making the rear valence removable. It was so tight before, it literally got hung in the engine compartment, even with the cooling system removed.

I have the exhaust/carbs mocked up. I need to setup the linkage, and try to center the copper gaskets better between the heads and the exhaust stubs. I saw a few threads mention Locktite 518.

IMG_20180907_193847.jpg

I was able to fill it up with oil, but have a pretty bad leak around one of the push rod seals. Found a thread showing how to remove the tube/seals w/o removing the head, but hoping I might be able to ignore for now, and fix later.

Since this is a 911 fan with no oil cooler, I was planning to use my existing external oil filter (oem blocked w/ cover) and single setrab cooler installed over the axle. I was planning to connect the oil lines to the CSP oil cooler adapter, but saw a few other recommendations (oil filter input, return to galley in the case), and the oil gallies are tapped.

IMG_20180909_160252.jpg

IMG_20180909_160216.jpg

I'm thinking at this point, I will finish plumbing the oil filter/cooler, get the jetting adjusted based on the previous posts, build oil pressure, and get it fired up for a few minutes, look at the oil temps and AFR, etc. I can address the plumbing and cooling later.

Does anyone have experience with a similar setup w/ external only oil cooling? The single Setrab cooler is angled vertically, so I could add a duct/deflector to help, or upgrade to a dual version. I found a few threads, saying upfront is best, but was hoping to avoid it if possible.

[wreck]

Gabbi underneath . .jpg

I use 2 coolers either side of the gearbox , get a Mocal thermostat controlled sandwich block that goes between the oil filter and oil filter mount .I've a thermoswitch for the fans. I live in a semi tropical environment that gets to 35C in summer and it works fine . gets up to temp , then the fans start cycling in and out regulations the temp between 70-90C .

The pushrod tube can be done with the heads in place in the car . Ray mentioned on another post that there is a VW tool to grab them internally and extract them . I've carefully twisted them to get them moving then pulled them out using pliers which is not the best method . On my 2.6 I just used engine oil to lube the O ring seals and haven't had a leak .

[rioprelude]

Thanks again! I will look into getting another Setrab unit. So you like the Mocal sandwich block at the oil filter vs. tapping to the stock oil cooler inlet/outlets with a CSP Adapter? I currently have my stock oil filter blocked off, but can easily revert it.

Is that a 1 3/4" exhaust? I let Tiger @ A-1 talk me into a 1 5/8", but I'm worried it might be too small!

[wreck]

I like the Mocal , another benefit is oil pressure straight away , the coolers will bleed a bit back to the sump and the Mocal allows a bit of oil to flow through the system when shut so it's sort of self bleeding . I've plugged the small bypass valve in the filter housing (I do frequent filter changes so don't need it) .
The exhaust is DIY , stepped 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 at the collector with 2 1/2" mufflers .I've a good friend with a 4.040in X 78 ,he has 1 5/8 primaries and still makes 170WHP at 5500 with a type 4 fan and hydraulic cam .

[Steve Arndt]

Try it first with the single Setrab before going dual. They work pretty darn well.

[NextGen]

I love the Horizontal Design. That is going to be an amazing Ghia. I did not realize Horizontal fan housings do not have an oil cooler.

[rioprelude]

Thanks guys. I'm slowly getting parts in, and hope to make some progress next week.

[Bobby74]

Just wanted to say that's a cool and unique build! I don't see a lot of 911 horizontal shrouds being used. I bet you will get people asking if its a Corvair engine Sounds like it will be a nice combo also.

I would leave the jetting and valve springs alone, until you get a chance to run the engine and see how it performs.
There's been many of engines that have been 'mothballed' (fogging spray) for decades and did not need much more than having the oil system primed and fresh fuel.

A good way to prime the oil system (on an engine that has been sitting) is:

Remove spark plugs.
Remove rockers to prevent unwanted stress and wiping whats left of the cam lube off.
Squirt 'fogging spray' or a light machine oil into the cylinders.
Remove oil pressure switch/sender.
Squirt engine oil into the oil pressure switch galley/hole and lube the rockers while they are out.
Crank engine until oil squirts out of pressure switch hole.
Install pressure switch/sender.
Crank until oil light goes out or until oil pressure (5-10lbs) is achieved.
Install rockers/pushrods, also check lash.
Install spark plugs.
Fire engine and watch oil pressure immediately.
Follow cam break-in procedure if it has not been broken in already!

Good luck and have fun!

[rioprelude]

Ok, finally working on this again, almost a year later!

I used fogging spray in the cylinders, set the end play for the type 1 conversion flywheel, changed the oil (brad penn 20w50), disconnected the full flow (used a hose to connect the output/input on the csp oil cooler adapter), installed the engine, removed the rockers/push rods/spark plugs/oil pressure switch and cranked it for a few seconds. It turns over quickly with no issues.

Oil came out of the pressure sensor hole, so I reinstalled the sensor, and have cranked it over a good bit, but can't get the oil sensor light to turn off (it's on when I turn on the key).

I do see oil at the csp oil cooler plate if I disconnect one end of the hose (normally to full flow filter/cooler, but loop back for now).

Here is my plan:
1. Try another oil pressure switch.
2. Connect the aftermarket oil pressure sender from the previous type 1 engine (worked fine) and see if the aftermarket pressure gauge works during cranking.
3. Verify how much oil is in the engine (under/over), as I had leaks during the process. So just change it again and mark the csp dipstick/filler at 4 quarts (level)
4. Pull the engine to verify it's not leaking at the rear main, from the end play adjustment.
5. Look into forcing oil into the engine with another oil pump/pressure device (saw some older posts with a few suggestions), to eliminate cranking with the starter, etc..
6. Make sure the car is completely level, the rear is on Jack stands, so I lowered them a bit, but it's still off, as the front is super low.

What do you guys think?

[wreck]

make sure the engine is reasonably level , but with that amount of oil the pickup should be covered well and truely . With the cost of that engine I would want to get a gauge to verify oil pressure , even if it is just a stand alone gauge you can fit to the engine and watch it while someone cranks the engine over .
Do you have the oil filter in the factory location and if so has the oil filter filled with oil ? you could put the hose from the CSP cooler bypass into a container and see how much oil gets pumped while cranking , it should pump a fair bit of oil .
I doubt the rear main is the issue because you would have a oil leaking everywhere .

If you don't have oil pumping from the cooler bypass hose I would get in contact with Jakob and get his advise .

[rioprelude]

I have the stock oil filter blocked off (csp), since it has an external filter/fan off the csp oil cooler bypass, even though it's just a loop right now, until the pressure is verified.

It pumped a good amount of oil from the pressure sensor location, and the oil cooler bypass, so I think its probably fine, but will get a gauge hooked up tommorow to verify.

The engine has been through cam break-in at Jacob's shop, so I'm hoping I can get the pressure verified, timing set, and get it running soon. Thanks!