Need info: T127 engine

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tuna
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Need info: T127 engine

Post by tuna » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:18 pm

Our own Tony Z sent me some photos of a T127 engine and number plate that he has access to.

Image

Image

For a long time, I've heard about the T127, but the knowledge available on it is pretty minimal. I'm sure that some of the information passed around isn't completely accurate. In my years involved with the Type 4 community, I've never actually seen a T127, so I'm counting on those who have to be my sources.

So here's what I'm doing. I'm going to write a web page on my site that covers the T127 engine. In order to do that, I need help from those that have one of these engines or had one in the past. Pictures, manual, observations, etc., whatever you've got I'll take.

Tony Z has offered to scan (or photograph) each page of the manual, but that won't happen until the earliest March.

So here are some observations of his T127:
I cant remember any specific specs right now - check out the manifolds, they look like T1 manifolds but on a T4. Carb is a 30mm solex (might be 28)
The plate says it's an 1800cc.

So, what does everyone know of these engines?

Are most of them 1.7s, 1.8s, or an even mix of both? Magnesium case or aluminum case? Intake? Exhaust? Ignition? Cooling? Flywheel?

What makes them unique compared to the models installed in a car?

Tuna
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blitzvw
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Post by blitzvw » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:51 pm

Tuna,
do the V case engines and T127s have anything in common?

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Class 11 streeter
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Post by Class 11 streeter » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:09 pm

Wow, hope March hurrys up and gets here! Need more pics!!! :D
So you think your project is taking forever eh? Well you've got nothing on me.....

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Tony Z
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Post by Tony Z » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:27 pm

well, one thing is that the flywheel cant be used.... the teeth dont point upwards, rather away from the engine. I assume the pump or whatever it is attached to would have a starter bracket with the starter standing upright

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Fritz
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Re: Need info: T127 engine

Post by Fritz » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:02 pm

tuna wrote: For a long time, I've heard about the T127, but the knowledge available on it is pretty minimal. I'm sure that some of the information passed around isn't completely accurate. In my years involved with the Type 4 community, I've never actually seen a T127, so I'm counting on those who have to be my sources.

So here's what I'm doing. I'm going to write a web page on my site that covers the T127 engine. In order to do that, I need help from those that have one of these engines or had one in the past. Pictures, manual, observations, etc., whatever you've got I'll take.

Tony Z has offered to scan (or photograph) each page of the manual, but that won't happen until the earliest March.

So here are some observations of his T127:
I cant remember any specific specs right now - check out the manifolds, they look like T1 manifolds but on a T4. Carb is a 30mm solex (might be 28)
The plate says it's an 1800cc.

So, what does everyone know of these engines?

Are most of them 1.7s, 1.8s, or an even mix of both? Magnesium case or aluminum case? Intake? Exhaust? Ignition? Cooling? Flywheel?

What makes them unique compared to the models installed in a car?

Tuna
Hi,

have dropped in after a looong time today. And you have one of my all-times favourites going on. Maybe i give you the bits i have collected over time on the 127 engines.

They came as 1.7 and 1.8 just as the engines for the 412 and 914 and the buses. Do not know wether any came with the early mag cases though.

Basically, as with the other industrial engines, you could get from Volkswagen what you wanted. Rather common as shown on the pics - with a regulator to maintain a certain rev for generator drive for instance. Mostly with a single carb, i think a 34PCI. Flywheel gear could be axial or radial as your specific installation requires.

The most interesting variety was used for the British/German/(Italian?-not sure) 155mm field howitzer as an auxiliary power unit.

All were 1.8L and came with dual 36-40PDSIT carbs, 7.3 : 1 c.r. and put out 68hp at 4000rpm. They were 24V electric system and had a shielded ignition system. I am not sure about the cam, but the heads are definitly the 371S with 41 inlet and 34 outlet valves.
In the early-mid 90´s they were first sold publicly as the number of howitzers of the german army was reduced. Same was done by the british army, but maybe at a later date. You could get NEW and UNUSED complete engines set up for long-term storage, packed as 4 on a pallet.
At first these engines were quite cheap appr 1500DM, but those prices skyrocket shortly afterwards to 3000 or 3500 DM or more (from resellers) when more people saw an opportunity to make money.
Now they sometimes pop up here and there, i think Ulrich Eckstein has some around : http://www.eckstein-kuebel.de/Motorentyp4.htm

I have some pics sitting on my old harddrive. I´ll send them to Tuna some time later.

Take care Fritz

Milky
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Post by Milky » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:14 pm

Hi, i have recently brought one of these units which i am fitting into my Bus.It came with a camoflage green fan shroud, 24 v electrics etc etc .Tinware was also very slightly different .Twin Solex slightly bigger carbs and none of the central idling rubbish. Heat exchangers and exhaust were also slightly different.I advertised all these spare and different ancillaries but no response so recently junked the whole lot .
I heard a story of a guy buying up a HUGE load of these engines and lots of spares including NOS cases etc etc in the 90s from the British army .I would love to know what happened to them all ?
VW Heritage a UK company recently acquired a batch of engines and they sold out immediately .In regards to the internals i am unsure but i did wonder if the have been balanced properly as they were built to run at a constant speed and with little vibration.I have the engine plate still which i wil ad in time .Does anyone have one of these to sell me as i would love another to keep as a spare.

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Tony Z
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Post by Tony Z » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:45 pm

found this link... lots of rubbish spoken, but has a few good comments and info

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=404037

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Tony Z
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Post by Tony Z » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:53 pm

hey guys...

I have not been able to get to the engine as such so no new pics or major info for you.
The manuals are copy written, so I have decided not to scan the entire manual, but only a few pages which show the basics of the engine.

There isnt really much info about the engine in the manual and the pics below pretty much show the majority of the info that came with the engine.

I hope you enjoy this....

Image

Image

Image

Image





Image

Image

Image

Image

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jan72
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Re: Need info: T127 engine

Post by jan72 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:58 am

Fritz wrote:
tuna wrote: For a long time, I've heard about the T127, but the knowledge available on it is pretty minimal. I'm sure that some of the information passed around isn't completely accurate. In my years involved with the Type 4 community, I've never actually seen a T127, so I'm counting on those who have to be my sources.

So here's what I'm doing. I'm going to write a web page on my site that covers the T127 engine. In order to do that, I need help from those that have one of these engines or had one in the past. Pictures, manual, observations, etc., whatever you've got I'll take.

Tony Z has offered to scan (or photograph) each page of the manual, but that won't happen until the earliest March.

So here are some observations of his T127:
I cant remember any specific specs right now - check out the manifolds, they look like T1 manifolds but on a T4. Carb is a 30mm solex (might be 28)
The plate says it's an 1800cc.

So, what does everyone know of these engines?

Are most of them 1.7s, 1.8s, or an even mix of both? Magnesium case or aluminum case? Intake? Exhaust? Ignition? Cooling? Flywheel?

What makes them unique compared to the models installed in a car?

Tuna
Hi,

have dropped in after a looong time today. And you have one of my all-times favourites going on. Maybe i give you the bits i have collected over time on the 127 engines.

They came as 1.7 and 1.8 just as the engines for the 412 and 914 and the buses. Do not know wether any came with the early mag cases though.

Basically, as with the other industrial engines, you could get from Volkswagen what you wanted. Rather common as shown on the pics - with a regulator to maintain a certain rev for generator drive for instance. Mostly with a single carb, i think a 34PCI. Flywheel gear could be axial or radial as your specific installation requires.

The most interesting variety was used for the British/German/(Italian?-not sure) 155mm field howitzer as an auxiliary power unit.

All were 1.8L and came with dual 36-40PDSIT carbs, 7.3 : 1 c.r. and put out 68hp at 4000rpm. They were 24V electric system and had a shielded ignition system. I am not sure about the cam, but the heads are definitly the 371S with 41 inlet and 34 outlet valves.
In the early-mid 90´s they were first sold publicly as the number of howitzers of the german army was reduced. Same was done by the british army, but maybe at a later date. You could get NEW and UNUSED complete engines set up for long-term storage, packed as 4 on a pallet.
At first these engines were quite cheap appr 1500DM, but those prices skyrocket shortly afterwards to 3000 or 3500 DM or more (from resellers) when more people saw an opportunity to make money.
Now they sometimes pop up here and there, i think Ulrich Eckstein has some around : http://www.eckstein-kuebel.de/Motorentyp4.htm

I have some pics sitting on my old harddrive. I´ll send them to Tuna some time later.

Take care Fritz

Sorry for the off-topic question, did anyone here buy from Ulrich Eckenstein? Some sort of experience? Thanks...

busman78
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Post by busman78 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:05 pm

Update, got three of them, well got two left 1/26/2010

Anybody have one of these engines and plans on selling the intake manifold send me a PM?
Last edited by busman78 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tony Z
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Post by Tony Z » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:30 pm

busman78 wrote:Anybody have one of these engines and plans on selling the intake manifold send me a PM?
yes 8) , but nothing on it is for sale yet. And wont be for a long time

blitzvw
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:08 am

Post by blitzvw » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:08 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey tony, I'll swop you a Karmann Ghia for that engine :twisted:

jinx
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Post by jinx » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:08 pm

i had one of the millitary 1800 ones off the howitzer
i managed to blow an oil gally plug so it now sits in bits in boxes in my shed!
the pistons are dished but not as much as a buss
i had the 36-40 solex carbs without the idle system
big valve 1800 heads
i dont think its a magnesium case

i think the cams are different profile but ill have to check,
used to push my splitty realy well!

im sure i have it listd on my ETKA disk
ill check that too!

jinx
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:32 pm

Post by jinx » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:10 pm

to the best of my knowledge
mine came fron one of these!
Image
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

image link adjusted so image would show up in thread - mod

bill.est
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Post by bill.est » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:34 pm

my collection ,all TYP127
Image

,and this looks Howitzer gearbox
Image

,and brand new 12V,200mm flywheel (109 teeth! not 130?),toothring can replace(flywheel is not in 1 pieces)needle bearning installed in center flywheel,ignition system all waterproof,fuelpump hole is closed.
Image
Last edited by bill.est on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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