My first type4, probably 2056

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TZepeSH
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My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:23 am

Hello!
I have owned a VW 1303S for 10 years now and during the last years I built a mildly modified 1.6l type 1 engine. As I don't have anything else to do on the car, I started think more about type 4, as a few friends of mine were ahead of me and convinced me that it is so much better. I have read a lot on type 4 until now, and I am ready to start a build. So I bought a 2.0l CJ engine, disassembled it, and started to build the upright conversion. At this stage I will also do all the measurements and rebuild the cylinder heads. I want the engine for normal driving, but it is fun to have a little extra when needed. So no constant racing or hardcore driving. I will buy must of the parts from CSP.

The results so far: the crankshaft was reground at the factory for first reground, I will measure it again and see what size main mearings and rod bearings to buy. I have cut all the engine tins and prepared them for the upright conversion; I am still looking for a piece of aluminum to finish the alternator stand in order to finish the positioning and welding of the fan shroud. I cut and welded the oil filler. The dipstick is in the original location (although different from the bus location... I don't know on what type of vehicle the engine was installed).

What I want to do:
- install 96mm P&C
- install larger valves (41x34) - what are the seat dimensions for those? I have looked on the CSP website and can't figure it out.
- camshaft - WebCam 163/86B with Webcam lifters
- CR ~9.5:1
- MegaSquirt 2 Extra fuel injection, with motorcycle throttle bodies and ignition control for COP
- try to build my own stainless steel exhaust system - still thinking on the possibilities

Pictures with the engine at this point:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1100752656 ... 9OiqZP0nAE

NextGen
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by NextGen » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:05 am

Weird about the Dipstick location. The CJ is a Bus engine but if the dipstick is in the Bug location?? That could only mean it was converted to be used in a 914, bug. Simple to if it is an adaptor dipstick that is removable. That may be good sign seeing it was in a lighter car for a while.

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supaninja
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by supaninja » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:24 am

Sounds like a sweet build! Keep us updated.
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TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:34 pm

The engine also had a weird rear mount bar, it didn't look like the bus or the 411/412, so I don't know the type of vehicle it was fit in. I will post updates as I work on it, but it will be a slow build.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:51 am

New pictures. I finished welding the cooling tins and I modified the doghouse a little bit. Now the cooling air is directed to the middle of both sides of the engine. There are also some pics of the alternator stand. I am very curious if I improved the cooling of the engine. For my configuration, the cooling shroud was too close to the no. 4 spark plug hole and it was right in the middle on the other side, so I decided to make it symmetric. When I will finish the engine, I will mount cylinder head temperature sensors for each cylinder, but I am sure that it will be a big improvement for no. 3 cylinder. Also, the flywheel is for 200mm clutch disc and has a changed crown (unfortunately for 6V starters, but I will find a solution for that).

https://picasaweb.google.com/1100752656 ... 6Zvd94qIaw

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craigvwdude
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by craigvwdude » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:50 am

Looks like you have a great start!
I'm also interested in how your fan shroud works. I like the idea!

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:51 am

CJ was a Vanagon motor, AKA "T3" van in Europe.

The rear mount used 10mm bolts, and only used a rear bar and trans nosecone mount, thus the HD rear mount.
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dstar5000
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by dstar5000 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:56 am

USe th 6V starter, won't hurt it......as long as you don't have to WIND it up like a TOP!
:D

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jan72
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by jan72 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:04 pm

Piledriver wrote:CJ was a Vanagon motor, AKA "T3" van in Europe.

The rear mount used 10mm bolts, and only used a rear bar and trans nosecone mount, thus the HD rear mount.
CJ was, in fact, the "T2" engine, '75-'79. Vanagons had CU engines.

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:16 pm

jan72 wrote:
Piledriver wrote:CJ was a Vanagon motor, AKA "T3" van in Europe.

The rear mount used 10mm bolts, and only used a rear bar and trans nosecone mount, thus the HD rear mount.
CJ was, in fact, the "T2" engine, '75-'79. Vanagons had CU engines.

My bad, open breather chimney, should have looked at the pictures :roll:
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jan72
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by jan72 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:34 am

I didn't see the weird bar, but it came, probably, off a T3-Vanagon...
I once removed a wasserboxer off a T3, but i don't remember if it had the middle mount, i guess it didn't?

Directing air more evenly over the cylinders is a very good idea. In this case, the "wings" or vanes that direct the air over the heads won't fit anymore. They have to be there, though, so you'll have to make some...

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:06 am

The vanes are still inside, and I modified them just a little bit. On the front side I had to trim them and on the back side I added small pieces of metal such that to preserve their original shape and curvature. Also, in the beginning I cut the shroud just under the vanes, but after some talk with Xellex I decided to cut the shroud even higher to obtain a better angle for the tins and not to interfere with the air flow that much. Of course, I cut only the outer metal of the shroud and left the vanes untouched.

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jan72
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by jan72 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:52 am

Yes, those too, but this time i meant the ones that were (once) connected to the thermostat (no thermostat-> blocked open). I guess i should have call them "flaps" :), sorry.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:35 pm

These ones are also in their places. The thermostat will be functional. I will take some more detailed pictures, but I do not know when because I am moving to another town and right now I do not hane any spare time.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:41 am

Long time since the project was put on hold, now I started to gather some parts to start working on it again. The whole concept for the engine is changed. Now I need to make have lots of torque down low. The power band I aim on is 2000-3500rpm. I intend to change 4th gear to a longer 0,82, the car will be driven daily around town, and also a lot on highways. Mileage is important, top power and high RPM not (I don't think I will ever hit 5000 or 5500 rpm). Racing is not one of purposes, just to be able to pass normal traffic easily. What is the best route to go? My questions are related to all parts of the engine:
- what P&C? would 96mm hurt the torque at low rpm? are 94mm flat tops better for this application?
- cylinder heads? 41x34mm 1.8l heads or 39.3x33 2l heads? Modifications for higher torque are welcome. Maybe bigger exhaust valves?
- compression 8,5 to 9,5 where should I aim?
- camshaft, Webcam 73, 86, 494, other ideas, which one to choose?
- Megasquirt 2 Extra will control FI and spark (COP)
- 4-in-1 stainless steel exhaust.
Any other ideas are welcome. I am even open to the idea of a small supercharger, but would rather stick to something simple, NA. If the NA way would not work with the gearbox I want, only then I would add a supercharger, but without changing the other parts inside.

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