My first type4, probably 2056

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TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:18 am

Thank you Pile for the advice. I did like you recommended, and it turned out fine.
I tested first on a cylinder head and on the oil pump, to see how good it can get cleaned, and how the machined surfaces react. All was fine, so I continued with the engine case. Pictures below. I have to clean the passages and the oil pan better, but I am happy with the result until now.
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CobraJet
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by CobraJet » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:38 am

So all you did was dishwash these? What soap did you use?

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:02 pm

Std. Dishwasher detergent is brutal.
It will only harm aluminum (discolor) if it sits and doesn't rinse properly...lots of little places to pool up in a t4 block.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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CobraJet
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by CobraJet » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Heh Heh, my wife is gonna freak!

Do ya think I should get a used DW just for this purpose?

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:46 pm

CobraJet wrote:Heh Heh, my wife is gonna freak!

Do ya think I should get a used DW just for this purpose?
I have considered it, but dishwashers are pretty effective at self cleaning :twisted:
Wives tend to be more protective of their ovens when you are trying to cure coatings...

Folks replace dishwashers all the time due to simple to fix issues.
There's not that much to them.

If you have a shop and build engines for a living I'd get two.
And an oven.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:06 pm

I used normal dishwasher tablets, Fairy I think. I took the block out when it started to rinse and rinsed it by hand in the bathtub, with a wire brush and screwdriver on non-mating surfaces. On mating surfaces, I just used a piece of rag. It took me at least one hour pe half to rinse it very well. When it dries, it makes some white dust, aluminum oxide, but that is normal, it would even if only by spraying it with water.
I had to clean the dishwasher thoroughly afterwards. It circulates that dirty water a lot, and everything inside gets spots of oil. I cleaned it with dish paste, then I put it on a cycle with tablet inside and vinegar, without any dish inside. It took me more to clean the DW than the engine. Same for the bathtub.

I considered selling this DW to get a larger one for the kitchen, now I think I'll just buy the new one and keep this one for engine parts.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:30 pm

I forgot to mention every 15 minutes i turned the case to another position , to get it cleaned in all positions and get rid of the accumulated water in various holes. The cleaning cycle was one and a half hours.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:36 am

Does anybody have the technical drawing of the fan hub for a type4? I want to design a trigger wheel, I think I can get it cheaper than buying a kit.
Is the key of the hub pointing towards TDC, or is there any way to know from the hub which is the TDC? I need this in order to point correctly the missing tooth (shall be 90 degrees before TDC with sensor on TDC and 180 degrees to TDC if sensor is 90 degrees from TDC). I can not figure out exactly from the other trigger wheels I saw on the net.

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:19 pm

I took measurements of the fan hub. Maybe the diagram helps others, too. The woordruff key is 90 degrees from TDC (to the left). I will make a better scan the following days if it is not readable enough.
fan_hub.jpg
I just realized that the trigger wheels for type4 from various suppliers (Thedubshop, MSS, Vwspeedshop etc) fit only type4 with original fan hub, not the upright conversion. Or maybe they fit the conversion if an aluminum pulley is used, flat back. I have original steel pulley machined. So maybe I will put the trigger wheel to the back of the car, not hidden between the pulley and case. I have to think well.
Am am also starting to make some CAD files for ITB flanges on IDF manifolds: one flange to go beteen manifold and ITB, and one above the ITB for IDF filter base. Depending on the price offer from machining companies, I will decide if I will use IDF manifolds or I will just make some simple manifolds using the original cylinder head mating flanges and some pipes to go up, but at the original spacing of the ITBs. I will have to figure out a way to adapt an air filter in this case.
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CobraJet
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by CobraJet » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:32 pm

Tell me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that it doesn't matter what orientation the trigger wheel is because you can adjust this parameter in the software that runs Megasquirt.

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Clatter
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Clatter » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:24 pm

"Oh, You don't need to do all that... The valve seats are just going to fall out of it anyway!"
- Doug Ellsworth

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:44 pm

I have yet to see a conversion pulley that doesn't use the factory hub....
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:18 am

Pile, I see the mistake I made writing my previous post. I meant type4 stock fan hub AND fan.
I did not mean not to use the factory hub in the conversion. This is how i have it, but i use stock steel pulley machined to fit the hub, not aluminum pulley. And all type4 trigger wheels fit only conversion with aluminum pulley, it is flat on the back. This is why i'm thinking to put it on the other side, this is how i have it on the type1 now.
CobraJet, the orientation normally does not matter, but thera are some guides to follow. http://www.thedubshop.net/crank-trigger normally the sensor shall be 90 degrees from the missing tooth, which shall also be relative to tdc. This is why all trigger wheels from various suppliers look different, the position of the sensor is different.
Clatter, i know the MSS option, also the one from Mario (thedubshop) and from vwspeedshop (UK). If i can do it for 50 bucks and fit my steel pulley, i'll do it. If not, i will just buy one.

I forgot to mention, all dimensions are in mm.

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:31 am

Mario has what you need, but an aluminum pulley is sorta required.

I spun a flat spot on the back of a pulley I converted... Using a wheel i had already.

There are many ways to skin this particular cat... I have tried several of them. They all worked.

It's possible to run full sequential using just the clutch bolt holes in the flywheel and a distributor based sync.
(BTDT, that was the first setup I tried just to see if it would work.)

The easiest setup:
I'm currently using a steel RC spur gear on a gutted 009...
A missing tooth wheel at distributor speed supports sequential with one sensor.
Spark timing scatter isn't a thing.

A 72 tooth wheel will fit, but you need the right sensor, I'm not sure what you can use off the shelf, I built mine from components using a nice $7 gear tooth sensor, a few smd resistor/capacitors, a short bit of 3/8" SS tubing and 5 minute epoxy...Thinwall brass would work as well, maybe better, and easy to get.
It has about 50K miles on it so far.

Redline Weber also sells a pre-modded VR sensor based 009 that should work fine, its not even crazy expensive..
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:41 am

I do not plan sequential, I think it is too much work for too little benefit. Maybe I can think of that in the future when I gain confidence I can program it. Right now bank injection and wasted spark COP shall be enough and easy to implement.

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