My first type4, probably 2056

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:34 pm

Several "OEM" parts that were available in the aftermarket got very expensive/hard to find when Porsche realized there was serious $$$ in supporting older models.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:58 pm

I was not arguing how high the price is. I was arguing that here in Europe, where the parts are produced, the prices are much higher than in the US, where you have them imported. And I saw that for several parts. For example the Bosch LSU4.2 wideband sensor is 150-200Euros, but I can buy them from the US at 50-75$. So it is cheaper for me to buy the from the US; together with transport (say double transport, to US and back from US) and taxes (I have to pay VAT because it is imported, although it was made here) is still cheaper than the part from Europe. But it doesn't matter in the end, I need the part and I have to buy it; I can not get anything else instead, so the manufacturer takes advantage of that.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Gnasha » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:45 am

Ive been following this topic for a long time now. I find the level of detail throughout the post fascinating and extremely interesting. So interesting, that Ive only gone and purchased a T4 CJ engine to convert to upright for my Karmann Ghia :D

How can I get the authority to view some of the photos on previous pages of this topic?

Thanks again.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:35 am

I do not know why you can not see the pictures. I checked the previous pages and they are present. Maybe a moderator can help with the rights.
Thank you for your appreciation. The level of detail is much lower than many other projects here. I have built many type1s, but this is the first type4, and this is why I ask so many questions. I am also eager to learn all details. Given that the parts are so expensive and that many of them are not easily available in my country, I'm trying to build the engine once and enjoy it many tens of thousands of Kms without major interventions. For this, I need to pay close attention to everything.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:19 am

Pictures!
Assembly of crankshaft. In the kitchen. I have good wife.
crank_assembly1.JPG
crank_assembly2.JPG
crank_assembly3.JPG
crank_assembly4.JPG
Head cc measurement: 51cc each. I made the plastic plate out of a CD case, and I used 20ml syringe 2 times 20ml, one time 11ml (fill with 15, left 4).
head_cc.jpg
Deck height measurement: no.1: 0.021", no.2: 0.022", no.3: 0.022", no.4: 0.019". Yes my comparator is in inches :D .
reference 0
reference_deck.jpg
Cylinder 1
Cyl1.jpg
Cylinder 2
cyl2.jpg
Cylinder 3
cyl3.jpg
Cylinder 4
Cyl4.jpg
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:27 am

And a mock-up of the engine, just to admire it:
mock-up1.jpg
mock-up2.jpg
mock-up3.jpg
So, I'm building the engine in the spare bedroom (again, good wife, she suggested it). Sorry for the mess, I have to address it soon. And add some more shelves to free my desks.

Conclusions: I think that the deck heights are close enough. With the given data, using the tool from CB Performance to compute compression ratio, it results that: 96mm bore, 71mm stroke, 51cc heads, with 0.06 deck I would have 9.3, and with 0.05 I would have 9.5. I found on CSP barrel shims, I can either buy 0.77mm (0.030") to get to 0.050 total deck, or 1.02mm (0.040") to get to 0.060 total deck. What compression would you suggest?

Next plan:
1. Order lots of components from CSP
2. add notches to connecting rods as per VW bulletin to spray oil to piston heads
3. Weigh the pistons and get them the same
4. Weigh the connecting rods and get them the same
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:49 am

I forgot to mention: when I measured the deck height, for cylinders 2 and 4 I got very different values: 0.014 on 4 and 0.026 on 2. I swapped the connecting rods and got them right. I also tried swapping cylinders and pistons to get the values even closer, but there was no other improvement.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:21 am

I would vote for .050" what cam are you planning?

Try this calculator for cam eval https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?ma ... 525fa02016
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TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:42 pm

Webcam 163/86B. 0.050 is also my first option, actually I was planning for 9.5CR, so .050 gets me there.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:34 pm

If it a "standard" 163/86B it's on 104LC, so 9.5 is ~OK.
You will need to verify valve/piston clearance, silli-putty or such works.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:32 am

Goodies arrive from CSP.
20170812_103145.jpg
Intake manifolds, oil pump, cylinder shims, crankshaft endplay shims, NPT plugs, oil bypass and fittings, breather, set of seals, and many other small bits. I also received the Loctite 567 and soon I shall also receive the 263. I've bought a Dremel 4000 and NPT taps. So I'll have something to work in the next months. Slow but sure.
Now that I've thrown some of the money on a Porsche 944 turbo S2 rear axle and brakes, it will take some time until I raise some more money for the engine.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Gnasha » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:56 am

Hi, just a question from a novice to air cooled engines. :wink:

When you measured the deck height did you use a gasket between the cylinder block and the crankcase? I'm assuming there is the need for a gasket of some description in that area.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:03 am

The cylinders can get a base gasket, or a spacer, or nothing but all typically get a very, very thin smear of copper RTV.
I have also tried Copper Kote with reasonable results, head side as well.(brushed on)

In any case, you measure it to figure out what you need, stock metal gaskets are ~.008", spacers can be had from .010" to .500"+.
Head gaskets are strongly not recommended on T4s, by VW no less, who dictated their removal ~40+ years ago in a TSB while they were still making T4s.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Gnasha » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:58 am

thank you for the response. I suppose with no gasket between Cyl liner and CC this gives you more control over the desired comp ratio

Is copper RTV and copper cote just a high temp grease or are they also a sealant?

Thanks again

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:51 pm

They are both sealants, both allow a tiny bit of movement.
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