Fuel rails type4?

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gaston
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Fuel rails type4?

Post by gaston » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:56 am

I'm looking for fuel rails to convert the hose type fuel injector (0 280 150 114) to EV1 O-Ring EV1 Bosch injectors. So I need a spacing with 85 mm and it should look like part 7056 like here:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=319
All other fuel rails have an injector spacing of 90 mm, like the jennvey.

I don't want to convert to multi throttle bodies - I'll keep the runners and plenum from GD/ GE engine code with a single throttle.

Does anyone know where to get it from in europe? I know who's manufacturing the steel parts (http://www.rossmachineracing.com/products.html) which are used for that type of rails.

Otherwise I give it to a friend to make me a couple of sets: http://www.rossmachineracing.com/injectortool11mm.html
If the tool lasts for several fuel rails it's a cheap way to get custom rails.

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:02 am

The RMR tool is amazing, so far I have made 2 sets of rails and the tool is still nice and sharp. I used the 14mm inj tool and their extruded aluminum -6 fuel rail to make mine.

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gaston
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by gaston » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:18 am

Nice ones ;)

But what about Ethanol (E85) gasoline? Normally aluminium isn't resistent to this fuel. In europe E5 and E10 is mostly available as more or less standard fuel, E85 on some special places. I haven't thought on this issue before,

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:42 pm

If you have access to a TIG welder, the spacing on the late GSXR ITBs SS fuel rails seems ~perfect, I cut up a set and welded fittings on the open ends.

I am actually trying to figure out a clean way to give each injector it's own feed and/or pair the front and back feeds (1/3-2/4) as I suspect some bobbles I see with my WB in certain RPM ranges are due to fuel pressure variations related to the injection order, similar to what happens in a std T1 intake.

I need to pick up another GSXR wiring harness, fixed my dead MS2 daughterboard the other day, so I have a second MS2 system to play with, this time to play with semi-sequential and staging.
Last edited by Piledriver on Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by dstar5000 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:44 pm

YOU tried putting small *can* on each rail to act as an accumilator Pile?

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:53 pm

dstar5000 wrote:YOU tried putting small *can* on each rail to act as an accumilator Pile?

DOn

Not yet, but I suspect that will be only of limited help due to the injection events on L& right side fuel rails overlapping.

Thought--- this may be why some folks get better or OK results pairing 1/2 and 3/4, as at least both pairs would be seeing consistent pressure, as both injectors are shooting on each side at the same time, rather than the first one stealing pressure from the second shot.

I'll probably end up with a central distributor block with an accumulator and 4 returnless feeds to the injectors.
Last edited by Piledriver on Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by dstar5000 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Instead of an octo-pus, it will be a quado-pus?

:P

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:58 pm

It might be an "octopus" as there will be 8 injectors, unless I run a short line between rails to the staged injectors.

It will still probably have rails, but they will probably have a plug in the middle.

I'm just trying to figure out how to do it without it looking like a basket of snakes.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:22 pm

gaston wrote:Nice ones ;)

But what about Ethanol (E85) gasoline? Normally aluminium isn't resistent to this fuel. In europe E5 and E10 is mostly available as more or less standard fuel, E85 on some special places. I haven't thought on this issue before,
Yes ethanol does corrode aluminum, butttttttttttttttt I ran it with no issues on my honduh and it had a aftermarket aluminum rail, should be just fine. I would not use an aluminum tank and aluminum hardlines with ethanol, that could lead to issues.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:36 pm

Straight ethanol is quite nasty, E10-E85 likely has inhibitors in it, should be far less nasty.
It also depeds greatly on the aluminum alloy.

I would personally not run aluminum line in any case, I can have steel for less for the cost of a few ounces.

Old carb fuel line will not like it, there seem to be many flavors available based on a recent heated discusion.
Supa pointed out (correctly) that GOOD carb line meets specs that make it suitable for FI work at least if your pump is not a HP version.
All my pumps make ~200 PSI dead headed, So I'll stick with R9 EFI line.

Until fairly recently, carb line (SAE30R7) turned into mush and/or dry rotted fairly quickly even with E10.

The new Gates or Goodrich hose appears not to care, but the generic R7 line is not a good idea.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:10 am

I have a 1ft section of the r9 from the pump outlet to the tunnel hardline, then it's all Summit braided line. PD, I did have almost a year on the r7 stuff with zero issues: no drying out, cracking, or mushiness. As long as the fuel flows back to the tank then everything should be jolly good!
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Munchhausen » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:23 am

Piledriver wrote:If you have access to a TIG welder, the spacing on the late GSXR ITBs SS fuel rails seems ~perfect, I cut up a set and welded fittings on the open ends.
Other option are SS Rails from V6 Audi. Good to find on junkyard and on every side they have one spacing of 85mm. Take two rails and you allready have four fittings to weld on. :wink:

munch

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:52 am

Good call!

I just realized mispoke earlier, the rails I'm using are for the marine (jetski) flavor of a Yamaha R1 motor, not the GSXR.

I haven't put a ruler (or a bandsaw) on the gx'r rails. Yet.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Devastator » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:35 pm

Piledriver wrote:Straight ethanol is quite nasty, E10-E85 likely has inhibitors in it, should be far less nasty.
It also depeds greatly on the aluminum alloy.
I think you guys are confusing Ethanol with Methanol.
I have an aluminum fuel tank, fuel rails, intake manifold, TB, and swirlpot, and have run exclusively E85 for years without any corrosion issues.
Methanol, however, is HIGHLY corrosive to aluminum, (and steel for that matter).
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gaston
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by gaston » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm

Munchhausen wrote:
Piledriver wrote:If you have access to a TIG welder, the spacing on the late GSXR ITBs SS fuel rails seems ~perfect, I cut up a set and welded fittings on the open ends.
Other option are SS Rails from V6 Audi. Good to find on junkyard and on every side they have one spacing of 85mm. Take two rails and you allready have four fittings to weld on. :wink:

munch
Moin ;)

Thanks for the hint with the Audi fuel rails.

Oliver

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