Longevity of 103's?

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Longevity of 103's?

Post by gearheadgreg » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:18 pm

I've heard people poo-poo the 103mm Pistons and Cylinders, but I haven't heard anyone with hard data say they shouldn't be used in a lighter weight, 'sporting' use, occassional daily driver.

What say you, STF?
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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by dstar5000 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:39 am

NO matter how easy you drive it, the 103s won't last past 30,000kms.....

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Type 4 Unleashed » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 am

I have done well over 20,000 miles-32,000klms on a set of 105.7mm cyl's in a 1 year period in my daily driver. The cyl's were EMW older ones cast in a foundry in Mexico who makes liners for Diesel trucks. The pistons & rings were used Nascar take outs.
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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by dstar5000 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:51 am

How hard are you on it Richard??
;)

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Type 4 Unleashed » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:17 am

It was thrashed on a daily basis, 1/8 mile freeway on ramps if there were no cars in front of me, cruising 65 dropping from 5th to 3rd and nailing it for passing.

Wait and see what you get with the Deutz cyl's.
Richard

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Steve Arndt » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:44 am

My Eurorace 103s are 13 years old...granted I haven't built the engine yet! ;) I don't like to rush these things.

20K miles shouldn't be hard to get before they go out of round and start passing blow by, just like old thin wall 92s for T1s.

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by gearheadgreg » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:48 am

Can cylinder stiffeners be used on the 103's like the 92s, or isn't there any room left (not looking at any right now of course)?

I think if I got 20k out of an occassional driver, it wouldn't be bad. Wouldn't necessarily want to sell someone that engine to stick in their overloaded bus, but for a T3 Fasty or something should be fun.
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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Steve Arndt » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:52 am

My 103s have CNCed steel plates that fit below the cylinders and tie into the heads with two studs each. It is like the FAT 5 stud, but with a 6th stud on the bottom. The extra studs bolt into the steel plates rather than into welded pads on the case like FAT.

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by gearheadgreg » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:12 pm

Hmmm. Interesting - got any pics?
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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Type 4 Unleashed » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:30 pm

103's have .055" thicker cyl wall than the 105.7mm cyl's I have ran, so a thicker cyl wall will resist warping far easier.

The 105.7mm cyl's are the largest I have ran to date, but my current build which is on hold, is going 4.180"-106.172mm. My other builds were with bore sizes around 105mm-4.130" & 4.135" for example, so the cyl walls were a little thicker, and really never had any problems with cyl warping.

I was writing this when you posted. As I said cyl warping hasn't been a problem for me the pistons & rings and clearance I have ran have worked really well, but cyl to head sealing can be a problem.

I have had thoughts on this because of the size of my cyl spacer I need for my stroker, Pauter has cyl's that are cast so that you can put a 5th & 6th stud in the cyl, and this guy in Europe made these and are probably along the lines of how you did yours:

Image
Richard

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Steve Arndt » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:38 pm

Mine are like that, except one plate fits under both cylinders.

Like Richard mentioned, head sealing is more of an issue than warping the cylinders. The head gets thin and weak when bored this large. My heads are also welded and braced on the fins on the top, and the bottom is posted and welded.

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by gearheadgreg » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:14 pm

Cool... Very cool, in fact. I am getting a bunch of Type 4 stuff in trade for some of my non-VW stuff I sold.

One of the engines is a long block that's a 71 x 103, and then some other 2L and 1.7/1.8L cranks, rods, heads, Sig Erson cams etc. Should be about 2.5 engines worth. I want to use the 2.4 in a driver project - hopefully a '69 Fasty sooner than later.

As much as I don't mind a shorter term powerplant, I don't want a hand grenade, either. I can always build something a bit more robust while I drive the 2.4L. Now to brush up - I haven't built a Type 4 since 2004 or 5 when I needed a motor in a '74 Panel Van....
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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by MegaRookie » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:52 am

Type 4 Unleashed wrote: I have had thoughts on this because of the size of my cyl spacer I need for my stroker, Pauter has cyl's that are cast so that you can put a 5th & 6th stud in the cyl, and this guy in Europe made these and are probably along the lines of how you did yours:

Image
Very nice solution of making more studs in the cylinder! Do you also have some pics of how the guy did the modification to the heads?

Thnx!

Mark

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by Steve Arndt » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:02 am

I will post pics of my heads and the plates.

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Re: Longevity of 103's?

Post by dstar5000 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:44 am

Type 4 Unleashed wrote:It was thrashed on a daily basis, 1/8 mile freeway on ramps if there were no cars in front of me, cruising 65 dropping from 5th to 3rd and nailing it for passing.

Wait and see what you get with the Deutz cyl's.
EXCELLENT! You think I will like or loath the Deutzs?
:)

I have the inbalance solution to Porsche cooling and the T4...
:)

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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