street / hill climb combination

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damo99
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:14 am

MegaManx wrote:Ok so I’ve been talking to a couple of engine builders and I’ve been told that if all my internals are ok (I haven’t split my case yet to look, it’s a 1.8L) that I should just get it machined for 105’s and get a set of 48x36 duel spring heads and a cam to my taste all at 9.5:1. approx. 2455cc 220hp+
My question is has any one done this? Is the combo itself ok or complete rubbish? Will the standard internals even cope?
I tend to agree with the train of thought that a smaller crank and bigger pistons to bring up the revs and keep the low end toque in check may be the way to go for my application.
Anyway its just a thought, im fairly certain that my case has seen a bit of work over the years and I would feel better knowing that its been completely rebuilt.
alot of type 4 engine builder hate the 103/4/5mm pistons and barrells unless your willing to spend big $ on niki's
i know jake raby is no fan of the 103/4/5mm unless there nikisil.
and for the price of nikisil barrells you could get a stroker crank ,96's+ alot more

in aus there are no real type 4 specialists they all mainly do type 1 and do the occasional stock or mild type 4's every now and then .
i can't think of 1 engine builder in aus that only does type 4's..
rod penross would be the only one i can think of who does performance type 4s more than most

MegaManx
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by MegaManx » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:04 pm

damo99 you are right about AUS engine builders. Out of interest I’ve done a little more research on wane Penrose’s site ( http://www.wpvw.com.au/performance.htm ) and it seems that he ran a similar combo in his drag bug to the one that I was talking about before.

I have heard that some people don’t like the 103-105 sets unless its nikisil. Is that mostly because of the thermal properties and product quality or something else that I’m not aware of? But you are right about being able to get a lot more motor for the price of a set of niki's.

And finally the “new” scat split ports are they still problematic? All the other threads are a few years old.
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damo99
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:40 am

from what i have gathered they don't like the bolt spacing on the type 4 as it isn't sqaure like the type 1
wayne penrose uses 6 studs last time i talked to him the motor also gets pulled down alot as it's not a street motor
here is someone else's coment on 103's and head sealing from another thread
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... highlight=

As I understood, it isn't a cylinderhead problem, but the steel 103's make it become a head problem: the 'problem' lies in the poor cooling abilities of the big, poorly finned, steel jug: The alu cylinders cool much more because of a the 3x better thermal condutivity of Aluminium, thus giving less residual heat to be transferred to the head. An 'optional' Nikasil plating gives less friction, thus even more so contributing to a cooler cylinder.
A cooler cylinder has less of a expansion difference with the head, more so, because an Alu cylinder is of the same material as the head, there is even less of an expansion difference between the two, making for a much better seal.
After all, the difference in expansion between the cylinder and the head is IMHO the mean reason for the aformentioned head-cylinder sealing problems...
So, I really do think its a cylinder problem. The heads are fine for most applications.

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Piledriver
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by Piledriver » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:54 pm

The ~only ways to get 200+ HP without spending thousands on headwork and having a high RPM hand grenade requires boost or juice.(Nitrous)
The head seal rigitity on a T4 is the limiting factor there, even an issue for a hipo NA motor.

The big bore iron jugs have issues staying round in use, but the EMW 103 jugs (they have their own castings made) have a reasonably good reputation..

There is a probable solution I proposed ages ago for that but it would require 1.7L register heads, (100mm register (nominal)) and "moving" the head seal surface//register to near the outer surface of the heads, the std register would be the top ~5mm or so of the bore above the rings, making the head deck material that much thicker.
You could also do it with 105s on 1.8/2L registers (105mm) but I doubt they would stay round esp. under boost due to the thin walls.

(AMC makes 1.7L register heads that can be ported like the larger ones, unlike the factory 1.7s, but you don't need killer heads to make good power boosted)

IIRC The Nickies V2 could be used with that setup, and I believe Jake built a motor or two like that, but have never seen any feedback as to how much it helped.

I picked up a set of EMPI 100 birals and a freshly align bored case to try that setup but is in a long list of projects I haven't had time to get to.

I'm pretty sure you could clear 250HP (boosted) with 1.7L heads on a 2.2-2.3L, even with the tiny stock valves, the heads flow remarkably well for 39/33mm valves. One might consider them factory "turbo" heads. :twisted:
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

wreck
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by wreck » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:47 pm

Check out "Get Back on Track" FB page , they do a lot with type 4's , they also seem to get away with up to 107mm bores and only 4 studs a cylinder . Talk to some old midget speedway people and find out who did the work on their type 4's back in the eighties ,(type 4's were very popular back then in speedway).

I'm about to start building a big bore using 4.080in (approx103.5) ford pistons (ebay), deutz cylinders .I bought a 78mm AA crank from Rod Penrose, after seeing it I'm worried about pushing it to hard so I'm think of going to a DPR crank and slipping the AA crank in my 103 x 71 Splitty engine. :) Heads are new 2lt square ports ,new castings with more support in the exhaust port .mildly welded inlet ports and manifolds. Peter Liddle will do custom seats and valves.

I'l do a build log and up load it, still a few months off though.
No matter where you go , there you are !

damo99
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:15 pm

the type 4 store had some dpr cranks at a real good price about 4 months ago .($284 aus dollars)
don't know if they have any left but might be worth an email
i got 78mm chev jornu crankl ,cb h beam super race rods 22mm + bearings for under $700 aus landed

wreck
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by wreck » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:20 am

I bought one off their ebay store , it was advertised as a 78mm DPR chev journals with bearings. a s/h 1800 crank was in the DPR box !
They gave me a refund straight away as they had no more cranks .So someone has scored a 78mm stroker for the cost of a s/h stock crank.
I'm guessing because of freight costs they didn't ask for the crank and bearings back . so I was happy to get the bearings but would have preferred the right crank .
No matter where you go , there you are !

damo99
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:06 pm

you would be pissed on that . as they where cheap

damo99
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:53 pm

took all my parts today to get my 2270 put together and
my so called 78mm crank is also a stock 1800 crank. the cb h beam rods are the right ones but usless now i havn't got a crank .
i had no reason to check it as i thought i was dealling with a reputable company .
i have sent them an email i will have to see what happens .
the problem is i have bought everything else around the crank and rods

wreck
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by wreck » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:04 am

Damo I feel for you mate . To their credit they sorted out the credit straight away . Rod Penrose has 78mm AA cranks in stock. The only reason I'm not happy to use the AA crank is I've heard they can fail at high rpm, If you're not red lining past 7k rpm they should be fine .
No matter where you go , there you are !

damo99
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:31 am
Location: melbourne australia

Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by damo99 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:31 am

the problem i have is i bought everything around that chev jrn crank
so i have to try and find a chev jnrl one
rod has only got type 4 jnrl

got my money back for the crank and rods
but when i went to buy another crank of them(type 4 store)(via email not through web site)
i got an email back that they didn't have what i wanted and sent me to AA products
they paid the money back so quik they must have known they sent out 66mm instead of the 78mm
it's very sus as when i went to there web site and added the crank(that they suposably didn't have)to my cart
it came up as in stock (available )

MegaManx
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Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by MegaManx » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:46 pm

Hey everyone, it’s been a while so I thought I would post a bit of an update.
I still don’t have the T4 running! :( Its still sitting on the work bench waiting. But that’s mostly because I’ve been doing some serious work to the rest of the car. A bit of winter work has turned into a full strip down and rebuild, entirely new fiberglass (made it myself, not a job I want to do again), and new electrical. However I haven’t forgotten about the T4. I’ve been lurking on the forum and have been snatching up any local gear I can find. I’ve acquired a couple of cases and just about all the gear I need.

I’ve changed my mind hundreds of times since last time I was on here, but I think I now have a plan.
So the first part of the plan is to run a mostly stock 1.8 with a draw through sc12 supercharger. Nothing to crazy, just something nice while I put part 2 together.
The second part is where the fun begins. It involves a turbo, some Deutz cylinders, alcohol, and some very complex management software. But I’ll keep that a secret for now :twisted:

Hopefully I’ll be able start getting it all sorted in the next six months or so.
And one question, what are the specs for a standard 1.8 cam? I have a near new cam that’s had a custom grind but the guy I bought it off didn’t know what it was ground to. I’m going to get it checked out soon.

wreck
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by wreck » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:07 am

Have a chat to Tighe cams in Brisbane . tell them what you want and the engine set up and the will match one of their grinds , a friend has used 3 of their cams over that last year in his and customers engines and is happy so far.
No matter where you go , there you are !

wreck
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by wreck » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:07 am

Have a chat to Tighe cams in Brisbane . tell them what you want and the engine set up and the will match one of their grinds , a friend has used 3 of their cams over that last year in his and customers engines and is happy so far.
No matter where you go , there you are !

MegaManx
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:06 am

Re: street / track/ hill climb/ weekender combination

Post by MegaManx » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:22 am

Cheers Wreck! Hey how’s the fan shroud coming along?

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