2056 build, 130hp?

[vwbaker83]

I started a thread seeking advice on an engine build a while back, asking questions to help me decide what kind of power I want, the money I want to spend, what parts I can reuse... I decided that
1) I do not want to spend money on a Porsche transaxle, then put in hours fabricating, to handle the power of a 2270.
2) I could justify a nicely built 002, to accommodate a mild, spirited engine.
3) I have some nice parts that could be reused in a 2056, such as the cylinder heads, crankshaft.

I have decided to go with a 2056 build, using freshened up 914 cylinder heads, a non counterweighted crank with h-beam rods, kb pistons, balanced assembly, 163/86b web cam, either csp python headers or tangerine if I can afford it. 1.7 rockers, 911 swivel foot adjusters, maybe tool steel t1 lifters, maybe the standard web lifters.

My questions are: Is it possible to reach 130 hp with 914 heads? It won't kill me if it ends up lower, I'm just wondering. Does this build need something like Tangerine's headers? They look like a great product, but are expensive. Any other critique is fine. The standard services will be done to the case as well, such as leveling the case spigots if necessary, tapping oil galleys, etc.

[Piledriver]

130WHP is actually quite reasonable, the only issue is the 2L heads are nominally 65cc chambers and even the std 163/86B @104LC will work best with a CR well north of 9:1.
Bigger chambered 2L heads work out better on a larger motor for that reason.
A larger engine will also "get more" out of the big heads flow, so I would not discount the idea of a 2270 quite yet.

T1 folk have been putting far more power through T1 transmissions (admittedly usually beefed up some) for decades.
A SSC T1 trans can handle reasonable power if driven by an adult, shock loads kill.

>9:1 CR will require ~severely cutting the heads with a 2056, which is why I'd suggest a 86A on tight LC or a similar 494@104LC. Even with those cams you would still be better off with around 9:1
With proper CR and tuning I would expect a bit more power than 130 out of a 2056 with 2L heads and a 163/86B.

A1 makes great quality headers that can make more power than a Tangerine for a _lot_ less money, but on a smaller engine we are talking a few HP over stock, or even a EMW HX replacements and a 914 Bursch or Sebring exhaust combo.
A great header makes more difference on a wild motor.

Tangerine headers are art, and you pay for that., but Tigers work is not far behind, and works at least as well.

[vwbaker83]

That is quite a dilemma with the heads. I want to use them because they are in pretty good condition. But the chambers are big, too big to use with that cam, and I don't want to cut them. So spend money on different heads or stroking the engine, or just being happy with lower hp numbers and a milder cam.

[Piledriver]

Two reasonable options:
Do the 2270
(or maybe a tad smaller 96 x 76mm works and somewhat easier build, and use std length rods)

Use something like a 119/163@104LC. Lotsa lift, lotsa overlap, sane duration/Intake close timing.
That's beefier and lifts more than a 494, and will require dual springs.
It should run a lot like a 163/86B in a bigger motor.

That would probably be a nice cam in a 2270 as well...

You should actually CC the heads before planning anything to see where you are, maybe they were cut already, or uneven and need some cutting.

Something that pulls like hell from idle to 6K+ is no bad thing, esp if its a driver.

[ottox914]

Back from the dead. Bumped into this thread researching my own 2056 build. It features alot of spare parts I had floating around the garage and shed, so it likely isn't the perfect combo, but when building on a budget one goes with whats handy. The specs of my motor are very similar to the one being discussed. As most of this is already bought or owned from other builds, there isn't much more then CR that can be a variable. Just looking for opinions/experience on what to expect for the character of the motor when its done.

So here goes: Some fresh Len Hoffman heads, 1.7q castings re-done to have 2.0 plug angle, 40 x 36 valves, 50.4 cc chambers and dual valve springs. Len says they are good to 8k in a pinch, but 7k is a better number to keep things alive longer. They flow 175 cfm and have a great intake/exhaust ratio. Pistons are KB flat tops with hastings rings, running inside some good old german jugs bored out to 96mm. Stock crank and rods, which have an old VW/Jake mod to put an "V" groove in them to act as a sort of a piston squirter. Stock oil pump. Cam is a 276/284 from another build, on 110 lobe center. I'll be building push rods to get the geometry right. Swivel foot adjusters. Kerry hunter header and supertrapp let out the bad, and SDS efi with dual ITB's let in the good. I think they are either 42 or 44, can't recall at the moment.

I'm thinking with the 110 LC it will be a smooth, easy to tune motor, not as choppy as the 104 LC being discussed above. Maybe not as much HP or TQ as the 104, but it should breath well and run cool with the split duration cam and valve sizes.

So what about CR? With that small combustion chamber I have a option to bump that up past 9.0 if I really wanted to. Power curve? Max rpm to spin it? Thoughts?

[H2OSB]

You just made me drool with the description of the parts you have for your throw together engine. MY budget build is a far more tame 1911. What cooling system will you be using? (Oh, that's assuming you're building an upright conversion)

H2OSB

[ottox914]

Don't be to impressed. If the motors those other bits were in had survived, there wouldn't be a list for another motor build. Those are "leftovers" from about 5-6 yrs, so the stash didn't complete itself overnight. Motor is going in a 914, so standard cooling for that car.

[ottox914]

Anyone? Piledriver? TypeIVunleashed?

[Piledriver]

Match the cam/static CR to the required DCR, shoot for ~6.5-7:1 DCR with an aircooled motor on pump gas.
A 163/86B (std is 104LC) is not "choppy" in my experience, but wakes up hard at ~ 2500 RPM, but putts around almost like a stocker below it, at least with ITBs/dual Webers. OTOH it will pull to ~6500 or 7k depending on heads/exhaust and engine size.

It is not an off idle tq monster, but in a bug, ghia or 914, and in a dual sprung motor built to see 7K regularly its a very nice cam. Not a Bus cam. Just No.

Here's a good calculator:
https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?ma ... 525fa02016