im putting discs all around my bug what master should i use?

Post by **Tom Notch** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:05 pm

Use one for a disc brake Ghia, what I used on my bug. Works fine.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by vw62rag:
thanks for the help, i think im gona just use a late model bug MC. do i need to take out the residuel valve?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Tom Notch
Tom's Old VW Home

swampy bob · Post by **swampy bob** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:14 am

it seems to me a type 3 m/c should work well but i've never heard anything about it one way or another. anybody have any experience using one?

Steve C · Post by **Steve C** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:06 am

hi

As already said, it all depends on your caliper piston size. Im running 4 spot all round with a stock 19 mm disc brake mc. It works fine. Just get a stock 19 mm mc from a ghia.

Steve

Post by **Marc** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by swampy bob:
it seems to me a type 3 m/c should work well but i've never heard anything about it one way or another. anybody have any experience using one? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 113 611 015 BD (Beetle/Ghia), BH (Super) and the Type III M/Cs are all 19.05mm bore and internally the same, they just have differing flanges and outlet locations.

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:17 pm

Marc, the three Type 1 master cylinders all have the same bore, but they have different strokes for the front brakes. A Karmann Ghia MC has the longest front stroke, the std Bug one is medium and the Super has the shortest stroke.
But it doesn't make any difference, I know of all three in use with 4 whl discs and all work fine.
I am using the stock replacement std Beetle MC on my car with 4 whl discs. Early KG front calipers and 914 rears. No need to d!ck around with Bus or Type 3 MCs.
It ain't broke, don't fix it.

[This message has been edited by Bruce2 (edited 03-07-2003).]

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bruce2:
Marc, the three Type 1 master cylinders all have the same bore, but they have different strokes for the front brakes. A Karmann Ghia MC has the longest front stroke, the std Bug one is medium and the Super has the shortest stroke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Marc in another thread:
...they fooled around with different front vs rear strokes...but it's a moot point now since the BD is the only thing you're going to find on the market....the BD is common and cheap and a good place to start IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except for `65/`66 Type I which had 17.46mm bore, all Type Is and disk-brake IIIs are 19.05 bore. Of the dual-circuit models, drum-brake non-Supers have a 15.5mm front stroke and a 12.5mm rear stroke, while disk brake is 14.0/14.0 but the 113 611 015BD is used as a replacement part for either application so the difference only matters if you're shopping for your master cylinder from among the oldest crustiest ones (that have never been replaced) in the boneyard. Type IIIs are 15.0/15.0, and SuperBeetles (US-market) are 17.5/11.5 (note the Super has the shortest rear stroke but the longest front, and it's the OEM `Ghia that had the shortest front and longest rear strokes).

vw62rag · Post by **vw62rag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:23 pm

im confused.....

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Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by vw62rag:
im confused.....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's understandable.
I counted four more people who say that the stock late Beetle M/C is working for them, though....

vw62rag · Post by **vw62rag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:44 pm

so a 67 bug master will work good, right? do i need to take out the residuel valves? i dont want my brake shoes to drag and wear fast. thanks for all the advice, i have no clue what im looking for or what would work best

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Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:46 pm

Where are you going to get a `67 M/C? Got a time machine?

vw62rag · Post by **vw62rag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:59 pm

lol i give up. jus kidding, i figured i could go to a parts place and say i need a MC for a 67 bug. do they not makem ? please help me.

i thought this would be a easy modification

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Plasticfantastic · Post by **Plasticfantastic** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:47 am

It is easy. I bought one yesterday ('67 M/C) from CB along with my front disc setup.
Don't forget, you opened the flood gates when you asked for opinions....now you got a bunch of opinions. Keep it simple, keep it on a technical level YOU feel comfortable at. I'm not trying to get Indy car stopping myself, just trying to move up to dual circuit.
I did some reading on the residual valves, best I could understand is this, unless the calipers are significantly higher than the M/C where you would get bleed back (not sure how that works in a closed hydraulic system though) they are not needed. My personal take is this; I'm gonna start with no residual and no porportioning. Wait and see if the pedal stays firm and the bias is ok, then add what is needed (the valves and porportioning CAN be added after real easy).

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'57 Ragtop
'59 Panel
'01 crewcab Duramax 4X4
'02 JettaWagon TDI

Post by **Marc** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Plasticfantastic:
I bought one yesterday ('67 M/C) from CB...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What CB (and everyone else) sells is the 113 611 015BD "universal replacement" for dual-circuit Beetle & `Ghia. It has the larger-diameter `68-up feed tubes that use the blue hose, if you want to retain a near-stock appearance by running a `67 reservoir you'll need to adapt the smaller -`67 feed pipes. Other options are to use a `68-up reservoir and mount it in the LF inner fenderwell area (requires making hole(s) for the feed lines) or hide it by mounting it to the firewall above the M/C - a PITA to fill there, but stealthy. That blue hose is expensive stuff, but you can reduce the amount required if you snag the aluminum tubes that factory dual-circuit cars had from a wrecking yard.

Plasticfantastic · Post by **Plasticfantastic** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Marc:
That blue hose is expensive stuff,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No kidding, RMMW charges $19.00 for 2 meters! Luckily I'm not trying to stay too OG, gonna put my reservoir where the factory one is now.
Question: I also ordered a reservoir that lists for '67-'79. I'm guessing this is a "universal" too and will have the large feed tubes you spoke of??

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'57 Ragtop
'59 Panel
'01 crewcab Duramax 4X4
'02 JettaWagon TDI

Post by **Marc** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Plasticfantastic:
I also ordered a reservoir that lists for '67-'79. I'm guessing this is a "universal" too and will have the large feed tubes you spoke of??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say that's safe to assume, the OEM `67 reservoir fit behind the spare tire like the older cars' but was "split" and used a longer retaining strap - what they're selling should probably be described as being for `68-`79 Type I. I don't recall what the early diskbrake Type IIIs had for a reservoir, it's possible that a `67 III had the big lines but not the `67 I.