EMPI CRAP

[volksbugly]

OK so I'm sick of EMPI crap. SICK OF IT!
Yo moderators: I wish we had a forum that was just dedicated to empi crap and boycotting it, lets get our voice heard STF Unite!

Ok so I hope all posts in this Topic go in the format of,

Title of product:
link to your actual product:

6 point roll bar
https://youtu.be/Y62ryZ9xXpw

[Marc]

My first reaction to this idea is, well, negative.

Perhaps if you can provide more information, rather than merely declaring something "crap" I might be persuaded to NOT delete this post and any like it.

BTW, the link provided isn't working for me.

[volksbugly]

My first reaction to this idea is, well, negative.

Perhaps if you can provide more information, rather than merely declaring something "crap" I might be persuaded to NOT delete this post and any like it.

That video I made clearly shows whats wrong with what I bought.

BTW, the link provided isn't working for me.

Also I just tried the link and it works fine for me, its pubic unlocked and I'm not logged into google. I'm using chrome on windows.

How many times have you bought an EMPI product and it just plain does not work, or within a year it breaks?

Also if you feel that my post needs to be deleted, I feel that this would not really be a free open forum to talk about any VW related products then, and I'm not sure I should put any effort here.

The idea behind this thread is to expose problems with empi products, so for example I've found several mentions build threads ect about this roll cage not fitting, people needing to cut the legs shorter, re-weld and adjust parts, but when nobody should have to do it, its a manufacturer issue and each time it slides then the manufacturer gets more and more sloppy. I've already contacted the business that sold it to me and based on the video they are giving me a return label and are sending it back to manufacturer.

[volksbugly]

uploaded it to youtube incase there were other issues and changed the link

[FJCamper]

Hi Volksbugly,

I well understand your anger over bad EMPI parts, or even EMPI as a brand now.

I was around when EMPI meant something, and it grieves me to see how far that name, part of VW performance history, has fallen.

My "adjustment" to it all was to accept that poor and sometimes outrageously poor quality is the norm from EMPI and make myself careful in all that I buy.

My guys road race, tempting fate, on the parts we buy. I take it very seriously.

The purpose of this forum is to tell other members of our experiences with parts, good and bad. We don't need a special EMPI blacklist. We're doing fine communicating with each other now.

FJC

[Piledriver]

While I can sympathize with Volksbuglys ire, pretty much everyone not brand new off the street to the ACVW scene understands that EMPI is a four letter word, although they do have some small non-safety related bits that may be useful.

The though of relying on modern EMPI safety-related parts like a roll bar makes me queasy.
If the ONLY thing wrong with it is minor fitment, it might be worth modding it, depending on use.
(I am blessed with 2 nice welders, gods own plasma cutter etc, that looks like a 5 minute fix to me, but YMMV severely)

If the tubing is decent I might buy something like that cheap to cut up and fit into a T3 as the foundation of a roll cage... (I still don't own a tubing bender. Yet.)

Sadly, having to mod "off the shelf" parts to make them remotely fit for purpose has been ~ the rule for a long time, and EMPI is hardly alone.

I do think that folks new to the hobby should get fair warning before they get all happy joy joy about those awesome parts in the nice catalog and start shopping.

The only EMPI parts I have bought in ages were a used(?) set of 100mm T4 birals with new Mahle pistons.
(jugs may have gotten damp in storage, but they suit my (oddball) needs perfectly)

Those are probably older than many of our younger forum members, back when EMPI could get Mahle to make fully custom EMPI branded cylinders and pistons for hot rodding ACVWs.

Once upon a time, EMPI was the quality and innovation ~equivalent to Gene Berg, perhaps moreso.
Those days were long over by the time I got my first bug at 15.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The trouble with off-shore stuff is, and always has been is getting the people in the countries to build to the spec in the contract not to what they did before we came in to buy/contract for stuff. The bigger problem is to get the contracting company to come up with good specs and check the incoming products to the spec they contract with. Doing inspections does cost money so as long as people buy the poor quality stuff so to save (heh, heh, heh) money (not in the long run of course) there is no reason for them to do better.

A lot of companies, besides EMPI buy off-shore stuff that is identical to what EMPI does and you can tell that by comparing the products. LR has had similar problems in the past (not sure what they are doing now as where I get parts will not deal with them anymore) as well as other companies.

It is sad to see what is going on out there but to turn STF into TOS ... that is a loss for us. Thanks doc for the site and thanks guys for keeping it a good site.

Lee

[doc]

All comments appreciated.

We are not going to have a beat up EMPI forum. Nor are we gonna have endless posts by one or several continuously badmouthing vendors. The goal here is to provide info based on actual experience. If you got a beef with EMPI or others, make a post, state your case. Others will read and put that into their info basket before making a purchase.

This approach has been working here for a long time. Certain vendors have enough negative comments over time that they are probably best avoided. Other vendors have good reps for some things, not so much for others. Knowledge based on experience is the key. That's what we want to get recorded.

doc

[volksbugly]

Lock it sounds good

[bfreckman]

Well, I guess I will have to be the one that will attempt to bring us back to the center. For reference, I am not a young guy. I have seen a lot of VW water under the bridge. Like all things made today there are some that just don't measure up! But, many are really good and although there are a number of EMPI parts that are trash, there are many that are really well made...Take for instance their wheels. I have had numerous sets and every one was nearly as good as could be made. Also, their HPMX carbs. Yes the original versions were "exact" copies of the vaunted Webers, this also included all the "bad" features too like the infamous choke circuit. But, they worked on the problems and have come out with revised models that have all the glitches fixed. I currently run 1st generation 40s on my 1915cc. Some initial stumbling caused me to contact EMPI...good call that led to re-jetting both main and idle jets and they run great! I can go on mentioning miscellaneous other parts like their Distributor, billet Distributor hold down and even their exhausts. Most are quite good. I do admit some of their sheet metal parts really need retooling, but so do similar parts from other well-known manufacturers.
I guess my point is check out what you purchase. Typically once you pick a part up you can tell if it's worth shelling out the cash. Also, if you must, trash the bad part, not everything made by company.
p.s. No, I'm not being paid by EMPI just a realist that doesn't believe all the talk, good or bad...

[ainokea]

When my made in the USA MOFOCO big valve heads failed, I looked around for used heads to replace them. Prices for used were just as high as new. My parts dealer dealer offered up heads that were brand new and quite a bit cheaper than what I had seen earlier. The heads were EMPI and made in China. Although I was skeptical, I bought them. That was two years ago, with no problems. I do not like the sheet metal from EMPI or some of the other dress up stuff, but the heads are very well made.

[dragvw2180]

There was a reason you bought the EMPI cage instead of buying a cage from Ron Lummis and you got what you paid for . When I purchase VW parts I know I will have to modify or repair them before using them. There are exceptions like BERG , Lummis and others whom I have used with no problems but you pay for that quality. Cheap price usually equates to cheap quality . I am not busting your balls , just advising you to spend your money wisely .Mike McCarthy

[Jadewombat]

Like most anything in business, things will only change when someone's bottom line is affected. Keep buying it, not much will happen. Several returns, or a huge dip in sales--yep, the quality will improve just enough to shut us up again.

I know China is ancient culture and they have just as much capability to do good stuff as we do, I just don't see pride in their work (although I do see pride in the Japanese and Korean products--for the most part, there's exceptions of course but we're talking in generalities anyway).

The exact same thing applies to Harbor Freight and their atrocious poop they sell. They constantly will appeal to the lowest common denominator, not because it makes them money, but because they're soulless and absolutely don't care about that orange crap.

I lived overseas for a while and have a renewed sense of patriotism and will absolutely go out of my way to either buy used American tools or simple wait until I can afford the good new stuff before I buy crap again.

Sorry for the HF hijack.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

As Jade says: businesses, including American business, are looking at the bottom line only; e.g., the most return for the lowest cost outlay. After WWII companies started going to or importing off-shore for the bottom line. In the '50's there was a large collapse of American product quality which you can still see some of. Not all of it was from the American workers but that was there too.

Japan's quality, after a long struggle got to be better but so did their wages so off to Taiwan for products. The same thing happened there and off the American companies went. Its funny, a couple of the Japanese car companies American franchised vehicles sell better at home vs. their home version of the home versions of the same product because the quality from here is better.

China is now in that same learning period and their business men are going through the same things of (stubbornly I admit) improving quality vs. cost and wages. The only good out of the off-shore importing is that that big business is improving off-shore countries/companies vs. helping the home team but there is a ray of hope as some of the worst companies going off-shore are now bringing work back into the states.

American companies need to get their contracts into better shape. They can buy, as Jade says, crap or write good contracts (and enforce them) that have quality and minimum good quality products in them. Until the consumer forces them to by stopping via. buying their crap there is no reason them to do that. HF, EMPI and Latest Rage (they don't advertise for direct sales so much now days but do supply businesses) do have some good stuff, you just have to do your homework and decide which is the good stuff and which isn't.

The other trouble is that a lot of our companies buy from the same sources but have their parts painted a different color and different company names on them. I doubt that there are too many companies that don't buy a lot of their parts off-shore.

Lee

[Jadewombat]

Yep, very sad Ol.

I lived in Ecuador for a couple of years. The Chinese crap we get sold in the US, there's like two other levels of crap they sell in Latin America. And on top of this they pay import taxes. The stuff doesn't last at all. I had the misfortune of getting a loaner Chevy Spark when my car was hit there. Not the Chevy Spark they sell here, the older body style. It's a Korean made rebadged Daewoo or something "Chevy" with a 1L. engine. The car couldn't get over 65mph, no kidding and the WORST brakes on a car I ever drove.

The only way "EMPI" makes money is by people who get into the VW hobby and know basically nothing about them. To think how many engines have been destroyed by all those green foam air cleaners...