Drop spindles and stock tires?

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SparksLP
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Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:31 pm

Hey gang,
I've been digging through multiple forums, and I haven't seen a definitive answer. I have a stock beam on my '66 Bug, I'm toying with the idea of drop spindles and the "stock" 155/80r15 tire size. Any insight on if this would cause rubbing? The beam is a fairly new refurbished unit, I'm not wanting to spend the money on a narrowed or adjustable beam. Thanks for any feedback!

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ps2375
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:53 pm

Still drums? I know they say drop spindles push the wheel out a small amount, not sure if that is only for disc or for both disc and drum. How much room do you have right now between fender edge and tire. Slap a straight edge on the tire and find out.

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Stock drums, and the previous owner put on EMPI GT-5 wheels with 185/65r15 tires on all four corners. I know that is a shorter tire than stock, and I think I have about 4" of clearance in the front. But going back to stock steel wheels and taller tires is where I'm concerned. People have reported rubbing with the 185s and drop spindles, but I assume that's from total tire width and offset.

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ps2375
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:40 pm

That tire size is very close to stock diameter. I was thinking of a rub at inside edge of fender after the drop. With the narrower stock tire, you just might clear, how does the wide tire look for clearance to the fender lip?

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:37 pm

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Not sure if that helps. I'm not near the car right now, so I'll try to get a better picture/measurement later. I know that most drop spindles push the tire out about 1/4". But those aftermarket wheels are about 3/4" offset outwards, not sure the offset will matter much?
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ps2375
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:35 pm

The diff offset on the wheels might be the only problem. Looks like it'll be close. The narrower stock size tire will fit better, but the wheel looks to be close to flush with fender edge, maybe still inside it a bit.

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SparksLP
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:41 pm

Ok, thanks. But your thinking the main issue would be contact with the outer side of the fenders, not headlight bucket or inside fender/body?

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:02 pm

correct, I think you have to be much lower to worry about the buckets. I had drop spindles on my car and with the 185/65-15 tire on a 5.5" wheel, they rubbed the lips on lift throttle decel, looked fantastic, but rubbed. So, I'll have to wait for other things to happen before I can go back to them.

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SparksLP
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Ok, thanks for the info! I figured the rub would happen with the 185s, so I might have to do some measurements and math before investing in tires and spindles.

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:47 pm

What are you going to do with the rear of your bug?

Ignoring the two arcs of the tires, if you go to dropped spindles, add adjusters or cut and turn the beam but don't touch the height at rear of your bug then you could be pushing your caster adjuster's ability to get you enough positive caster and might have to add shims to the bottom tube.

I have also been told that the caster adjusters that are now available are drilled a bit differently than stock so that they work with lowered front ends. I have not been this direction but when I tried to purchase them as stock replacement units I was told that for stock setups they may not work.

If I am wrong on this I am sure that a correction will be made by others or myself or both but it is something to think about.

Lee

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by rrb6699 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:36 am

don't understand the arc of the wheels thing. you can't just add drop spindles? I was thinking about doing that. I have 185s on the front.
RR

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ps2375
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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:33 am

You can, but the change effects caster angle of the front. I put shims in on my currently stock ride height car and improved (to me) steering feel. A little more effort is what I wanted.

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by SparksLP » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:58 am

I think the problem people run into with just using drop spindles is how the tire sits in the wheel well and either rubs on the fenders during turns or if you have multiple people in the car (causing it to lower more). The offset from wheels and the drop spindles can push the wheels out and cause the lip of the fender to be in line with the tires. That's why everyone who slams their Bug has to use narrowed beams and tiny tires.

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by ps2375 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Difference between lowering and slamming. Lowering can aid handling, slamming is for nothing but going slow.

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Re: Drop spindles and stock tires?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:13 pm

rrb6699 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:36 am
don't understand the arc of the wheels thing. you can't just add drop spindles? I was thinking about doing that. I have 185s on the front.
Yes, you can just add dropped spindles then have the front end realigned (a 4-way [corner] alignment is more proper though as the rear suspension of the car (swing or IRS) is doing the same double arc thing and a nose down attitude can change things there a bit too); think of it this way:

The the front arms with the attached sprindle are in two fixed pivot points on the beam so as the suspension goes up and down the arms with the connected spindle travel in an arc. As the suspension travels up and down the arc moves up and down the spindles forward from it's position at normal ride height (hold a pencil horizontal in your hand then twist your wrist and notice what the end of the pencil is doing. Something very simple we all too often take for granted).

Several years ago and I took three pictures, in exaggeration, showing what the suspension does. I'll try to find them and post them later today.

When you steer the the car the spindles also travel but in an another arc. Add the two arcs together along with the caster (the angle of the upper and lower pivot points of the spindle) and the camber (the angle that the top and bottom of the wheels sit at) and you may have somethings to take into consideration.

Does this help or just muddy the water up more?

Lee

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