New to 914 Forum - Have Vanagon (Waterboxer) similar animal?

[Alan F]

I am in the process of purchasing a 1975 914 1.8. The former owner told me the engine was "tired". I have a retired VW mechanic buddy that has done wonders with my Vanagon waterboxer (2.1) (even though it's high mileage and had leaks (oil/water). Now it purrs like a German kitten and just completed a 2200 plus mile trip to California Redwoods and back without incident (fully loaded 2 adults, 2 kids , dog, camping gear, 4 bikes, etc). I assume that since the motor is basically the same as a 1975 VW Van (Type IV) that the tuning and mainteance is essentially the same, correct? will air box, injection, digifant ecu, exhaust, catalyic converter, 02 sensors basically swap (from a 1975 van)? In a related question, If I wanted to put a 2.1 waterboxer in it (I have one, new) and was willing to do the plumbing for the radiator etc, would that work? Issues hooking up the 901 trani to the 1986+ 2.1? I assume I could swap in the digifant ecu from another 1986+ van. I know this is a lot of info to process in one question, but I'm weighing my options. The easier avenue would undoubtedly have the mechanic compression check the motor, maybe do a top end with stock parts (AMC heads still the recommendation)? and see where we are at after that. I know the former owner had issues with backfires "blowing up" his airboxes. Never heard of this on a similar vintage vw van.

[Alan F]

I also recognize that the ecu for the 1.8 is not digifant, but L-digijet - the 1986+ vans are digifant (I believe).

[sideshow]

A wasser flywheel can be replaced with the porsche flywheel to expect that 901 gearbox. However finding a wasser exhaust system to fit a middle engine chassis will not be easy.

[Piledriver]

The 228mm flywheel actually only needs reamed for a pilot bearing... the 914 carries it in the flywheel.
The one in the crank needs to come out completely.

Once that's done it will work fine in the 901 trans, I ran that setup for many years.

I actually looked at a WBX swap myself, the exhaust system and cooling system will be most of the work.

I decided against it as it would be little less work than installing a suby EZ 3.0 6 or SBC for that matter.

A 2.1 WBX with stock internals, issues when at high mileage, will eventually want to spit a rod due to the rod big ends ovaling out, loses pressure.

They needed better rods, which are available from SCAT, their Ibeams have plenty of meat for a 24mm pin.

[Alan F]

Ok - will post pics soon but just negotiated final price on this car. First off - needs rebuilt calipers all around and pads - motor compression is 100-100-100-110 and hasn't been run in a while (12 years) but starts and idles smooth. Trani shifts well and body is straight - no accidents/rust except for battery tray. Paint is good and can be buffed back. Exhaust is custom dual muffler and looks to be in good shape. Interior is stock and in good shape. All electrical works. Think it's got approx 157k. Waiting on oil pressure numbers - don't know if it's had any major engine work but valves sound good. I got it for $3500. Oh yea - new michelins all around and stock steel wheels freshly painted silver. Good deal?

[Piledriver]

If the car really is that clean, you probably did very well.

Compression#s sound fine for sitting for 12 years, but you might way to drain/clean/coat the tank and you DO really want to replace the 40 year old vinyl fuel lines in the tunnel.

Check for rust very carefully under/below and forward up to the firewall (and underneat that area) under that rotted out battery tray, it's directly over the "frame". That area is called the "hell hole" for a reason, there are many steel layers and it's hard to fix, although possible.

Rear of cabin floors also common rust area although much easier to fix.

...but at that mileage I'd plan on immediately pulling the heads and having them reworked with new valve seats and ex valves, and probably a full engine rebuild, or at least dissasembly//careful inspection.

(Headflow Masters or EMW for the head work in the US, not sure who the "go to" guys in Europe are)
The AMC heads STILL NEED A FULL REWORK out of the box.
The castings are great, but everything else is junk.(valves, seats etc are made from bubble gum)

Few things ruin your day like the engine swallowing the head of an exhaust valve.
You'd think it ate a bowling ball based on the typical damage.
Sodium cooled valves do not play.

The crank and main bearings may be fine, the cam and std half thrust cam bearing are usually well worn by then.

Do NOT toss the main bearings etc unless they are worn or replace the pistons/cylinders needlessly, a fresh set of rings may be all that is needed, if that. the OG cylinders/main bearings are better than anything you can buy new.

If you replace the cam, you have many options, a Web73 is a better than stock replacement that is designed to be used with the stock D-Jet injection, although some fine tuning is usually needed (it's usually even needed with the stock cam for best results)

[Alan F]

Thanks for the great info !

[aircooledtechguy]

What follows in my own opinions formed from years of wrenching professionally on VWs. . . FWIW

A Vanagon wasserboxer is a doomed design from the outset. There is no less than about 20-25(!!) different places on that motor where water can leak. From what I have experienced, they are nothing more than a HUGE repair bill waiting to happen. Because of that, I could NEVER recommend transplanting one into another vehicle. In fact, I highly recommend transplanting them OUT of the Vanagons and replacing them with either an in-line-4, a Subaru boxer (they could get a boxer right but what happened to VW??) or a turbo diesel.

IMHO, if you're going to go to the work of installing a water cooled engine into your 914, consider either a Chevy 350 or a Subaru. Why limit yourself with a 120hp wasserboxer and all the problems that come with them, when for less money and work, you can have either 160+hp with the Subie or 330+hp with the Chevy??

Like I said, these are just ramblings from a jaded mechanic who has seen time and time again what a POS the Vanagon motor is and how it strands it's owners. . .

[Alan F]

I have owned 3 water-cooled vanagons (4 counting 1 aircooled) and interstingly enough have not had any significant problems with the cooling systems. I do maintain them, and have a retired VW mechanic (aircooled principally) which has gotten up to speed on the idisyncracies of the waterboxer. Granted it is a modification of an essentially 60+ year old engine, and yes, there are more "modern" motors out there that have better horsepower, torque curves, etc. But honestly, I have not had any of the "doomsday" predictions that everyone thinks these things are capable of. I drive them around 65 mph and 4100 rpm (the'yre not super performance oriented at that speed) and they don't have oodles of power uphill, but they are reliable (when maintained) and parts are still reasonably available and affordable. I purchased a long block recently that was a factory rebuild on a 2.1 that was sitting in some other mechanics shop collecting dust because I can swap it in when I do need a rebuild (currently 195k and counting with only new AMC heads for upper end rebuild as far as I can tell, not even sure when that happened to be honest) so when it ultimately becomes too weak, I'll just swap over my injection, charging system, exhaust, etc and be ready to go another 200k+. To me this is a more efficient use of resources than dropping $10k+ into a subaru, bostig, TD, etc. I have looked into all of them, and granted, I would happily do one if I didn't have the realtively cheap labor charges of my retired buddy, but because he can do anything it needs for probably 1/4 of what a shop charges per hour, and because I can get parts from either my parts vans or other sources, the cost of maintenance is really pretty reasonable. I think we've swapped one radiator and that took care of a coolling issue on my most recent Wolfsburg which I paid $1500 for. So to me, yes, they are idiosyncratic, but reliable and affordable. I think if I had unlimited resources, I'd do Subaru or Bostig, or maybe even a TDI (really unlimited resources), but for now, they get me from point A to point B without much fanfare but not much cost or hassle, FWIW. I am excited to drive the 914 and I just had new compression numbers come back at 125 lbs all around (after some oil was squirted into the cylinders from sitting for 12 years). First numbers were around 110 all around. I will try driving it for a while and see how the engine feels. If it needs heads/cylinders/rings, I'll probably do that sooner than later, but it sounds quiet and smooth and doesn't appear to have any significant tell tale noises. But it is a 37 year old car so who knows. If I had to, I probably would just rebuild the existing motor vs swapping anything else in. The only reason I inquired about the possibility of a waterboxer in a 914 was because I had the extra long block lying around and my current vanagon doesn't appear to be needing it anytime soon.

[Piledriver]

Vanagon motor (IN THE US) in my experience have to deal with US drivers putting the wrong antifreeze in them, ~random service intervals, plus they spend a lot of time running more or less flat out, common issue-- the big ends oval out (at least on 2.1s) and oil pressure goes south, and eventually the rods ventilate the case on their way out.

It's actually a halfway decent motor cared for properly, and at least I had no weird leak issues, but I did reseal everything when in there and replace all the hoses etc. (Note---replace all the rubber fuel lines, too, this is important)

I got my 88 as a "get it outta my yard" deal, with the horribly corroded heads in a box in the cabin.
Popped a fresh set of AMC heads on it (before I knew better) and drove it for >60K miles--- I liked it, and my Wife LOVED it.

The AMC heads I got had bubble gum valve seats and valves, which sealed pretty good considering all the the valve faces were fully conformed to the seat, which were badly misshapen
(There's a reason folks consider new AMC heads great cores)

Mine lasted ~60-65K miles from new heads, the motor actually went over 235k before it got a fatal rod knock.(saved it in time) but tencentlife (who does wbx for a living) usually suggests a much lower rebuild time, ~100K, at least with stock rods.
(he uses scat t1 rods rebushed to 24mm, plenty of meat in the ibeams, more and better steel)

In your case it might be worth doing, but I'd stick a turbo on it and an aftermarket EMS, the factory injection isn't really up to it. (If it's a DJ motor, a low boost setup is still doable) Look into the better rods.

Have those heads reworked with all new seats/valves springs etc before moving along.

An old menber of these forums going by type5joe (IIRC) used to do a lot of WBX sandrail motors in Oregon... haven't heard from him in awhile.

In any case, he suggested//recommended--- skimming ~.5mm from the water seal surface.(from memory, search for details)
He indicated this
A) helped remove a lot of the typical corroded material, and
B) actually seemed to HELP the seal, suggesting it's "squished" more than optimal in the stock config.
He did it on new heads.

Having said all that, The T4 is a fun, sturdy motor and with proper headwork and service, should last you ages.
(especially with the 66mm stroke bottom end)

I'd also be far more inclined to run it as-is, but please do the head freshen up before an old exhaust valve tries to escape.