Troubleshooting Help Needed

Fuel Supply & Ignition Systems

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mrblyoung
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:29 pm

Piledriver wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:29 pm
The 4.2 and 4.9 sensors use a different WB module calibration, not compatible electrically.

Surprisingly, the instructions are the same. I wonder if Innovate has different part numbers for the LC-2 modules that come with the 4.2 and 4.9 sensors. If I could find that information on their website, might be worth looking at and seeing if the sensors are compatible with the modules that I have. Hmm. Didn't think about that!

Piledriver wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:29 pm
Haven't heard of any widespread issues with the LC-2s, but the LC-1 were trash, died like flies back when they were new, the LC-2 redesign supposedly fixed that.

I did a good amount of searching of online to see if this was a common problem and saw quite a bit of people stating they ran into the problem as well, and the reasoning that forum members gave them ranged from "Need better ground" to "Your wiring is probably poop" to "Innovate sucks balls, get a X brand". Haha.

Piledriver wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:29 pm
Satisfied long term user of 14point7.com widebands, so far so good.

I have seen your posts about 14point7. From what I read, some people love his gear, but state that his customer service needs work. The biggest thing I would prefer not to need to do again is to change the cable from wideband to sensor going to a different brand due to the fact that my sensor goes through the stock grommet under the backseat, up through the rear door panel area, through the firewall in the engine compartment and to the passenger side. If I had to change that cable, I would have to pull the entire motor out to get it out. No thanks. :lol: :lol:

But at the end of the day, I have to do what it takes to make it work.
I will dig into the module part numbers from Innovate to see which ones are to be used with the 4.2 and 4.9 sensors.

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Piledriver
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by Piledriver » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:46 pm

14point7.com suffers from being a one man show, I'm not even sure he does it full time, although given the virtual herd of new products lately he has probably gone full time.

Your long WB controller to sensor cable should be able to be switched over as long as the controller, sensor and related connector all match. IIRC both Bosch 4.2 and 4.9 sensors use 5 wires.
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by sideshow » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:07 pm

The 4.2 & 4.9 have a different plug (well in the OEM world that the sensors are sourced from) to save my sanity I wouldn't start swapping the cables around. Yeah the pin count is the same, but no they don't work with each other's controller.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:07 am

sideshow wrote: The 4.2 & 4.9 have a different plug (well in the OEM world that the sensors are sourced from) to save my sanity I wouldn't start swapping the cables around. Yeah the pin count is the same, but no they don't work with each other's controller.
Yes. Different sized plugs at the sensor end. But the same 8 pin (4x2) pin pattern plug going into the LC-2. Oddly Innovate only has one part number for the LC-2 and it states it's compatible with both the 4.2 and 4.9 sensors on their website. Just food for thought.
Piledriver wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:46 pm
14point7.com suffers from being a one man show, I'm not even sure he does it full time, although given the virtual herd of new products lately he has probably gone full time.

Your long WB controller to sensor cable should be able to be switched over as long as the controller, sensor and related connector all match. IIRC both Bosch 4.2 and 4.9 sensors use 5 wires.
Have a picture of what your plug looks like on the long controller to sensor cable? If it were plug and play that would be interesting.

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:40 pm

Piledriver wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:29 pm
The 4.2 and 4.9 sensors use a different WB module calibration, not compatible electrically.
sideshow wrote: The 4.2 & 4.9 have a different plug (well in the OEM world that the sensors are sourced from) to save my sanity I wouldn't start swapping the cables around. Yeah the pin count is the same, but no they don't work with each other's controller.
Just wanted to follow up to this and state that according to Innovate's website, the LC-2 module is multi-sensor compatible and works with both the 4.2 and 4.9 sensors.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/supp ... tifier.jpg

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by Piledriver » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:18 pm

Cool ....if it only worked properly :twisted:
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:39 pm

Exactly. If only....

Still haven't been able to figure it out.

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by MarioVelotta » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:51 pm

Turn on LMprogrammer and see what firmware is on the LC-2, it needs to be 1.01 or later to be multi-sensor compatible. Once you are updated, in LMprogrammer you can select the sensor type 4.2 or 4.9. Once that is done you can then do the calibration for either sensor type.
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Just wanted to follow up in here. I figured it out. :roll:

I ordered an Innovate MTX-L wideband since my buddies had worked fine when he was troubleshooting things on my car. I used alligator clips and tried one of the MTX-L's that shot an E9 (low voltage code at me). Face palm.

Word to the wise. When you disconnect the wires going from your alternator to your battery, it doesnt charge very well. :lol:

A few weeks back, I had to disconnect the wires from the alternator until I installed that 1N4001 diode in the wire going to the dummy light on the speedo because it was backfeeding the system and not letting me turn off my car with the key. Being that soldering is not my forte, I put it off and worked on other stuff. If I would have fixed it in the first place, I would not have been fighting with these widebands.

Now I have 3 extra widebands. 1 LC2 and 2 MTX-L's. Go me...... :lol:

Car is up and running now. This thing rips.

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by Piledriver » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:50 pm

:twisted: One more and you can use them to tweak each hole in real time
(requires sequential fuel)
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:11 am

I will keep that in mind. :twisted:

I do have a new MS3X 3.57 box sitting on my shelf that came along after I already committed to Microsquirt for this build. Came with my spare motor. So the next one will be a lot more involved. I have considered selling the MS3X and going MS3 Pro on the next one. Same features, but I do like the connectors and the footprint of the pro over the full sized MS1/2/3's

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panel
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by panel » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:49 pm

mrblyoung.......curious how far back did you mount the sensor? I see they/Innovate say around 24".

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by mrblyoung » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:28 pm

Hey Panel,

I'm Bret. Ever create a username and wish you could change it down the road? :lol: :lol:

Are you asking about the location of the sensor bung in the exhaust? This is a typical sidewinder from Tiger at A1 and he welds the bung about 3" from the bung in the header. Right in the meat of the collector.

Why do you ask?

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panel
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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by panel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:40 pm

Hi Bret , It's just that Innovate says 24" and mines way close than that. Mine is turbo though. Just surfin the net and seeing where most guys place them.

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Re: Troubleshooting Help Needed

Post by Piledriver » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:58 pm

Post turbo right? Anywhere post turbo is fine as it takes a lot of the heat out of the exhaust flow.
Pre-turbo can be done but the AFR needs a pressure compensation, some setups with pressure sensors for the exhaust can do it.
The ms could probably adjust on the fly given a pressure sensor input but I don't think the feature exists yet.

Also, if mounted too close to the ex valve you may need to extend the sensor or install a heat sink.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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