Late T3 front brake upgrade--- BMW 2002Ti 4 piston calipers.

[Piledriver]

Work and the weather have been getting in the way.

The calipers were for a 73-73 2002Ti.

[vwfreek]

I upgraded the front brakes on my Squareback using BMW calipers as well. Mine are from an '80s 320i. It's a nice bolt on upgrade and made a noticeable difference in stopping power. They do need a thin shim to clear the original steel wheels. Here's a pic for comparison of the early T3, late T3, and BMW calipers.

[Piledriver]

Added a pic of the installed caliper on the first post, plan on putting a "T" in the rear circuit and redoing the lines so the front calipers get one line from the front 1/2 and one from the back 1/2 of the MC.

I strongly suspect that's how they were from the factory on the Swedish cars, I have a little too much front bias in the wet.

[j-bro]

Followed this thread a little and found a pic that reminded me of it.
It's a diagram of the 2002 master cylinder and plumbing.

I thought about doing this conversion but decided to go with 320i calipers for simplicity. If I used the 2002s I'd want to dual circuit the calipers like BMW did and I figured I'd never get around to doing it. As it is I haven't gotten around to doing the 320i conversion either.

Another thought after having looked over a couple of 2002s in wrecking yards is that it wouldn't shock me to find out that the master cylinder could be made to fit a type 3 without the booster; Hell maybe with the booster.

[Angelo Amato]

PD, you getting busy again - lovin' it

I had Audi coupe calipers on the front of my late fasty (virtually straight bolt on), these were 54mm dia. IIRC, running these with mk4 gold rear calipers on discs found the front locked up easily. BTW these were off vented discs so used an old pad backing as a spacer.

So i swapped out for a set of mk1 golf GTI (48mm dia?) to hopefully alter the balance.

having to run a 944 22/19? mc (hell, my memory is going!), tried an audi 21/21 but i think the sliding calipers have more 'slop' so need the extra fluid displacement of the 944 one - works fine

at the same time upgraded to kerscher vented front discs - perfect match for the calipers

All expeirmental

Angelo

[560]

Any more updates???

Mike

[Piledriver]

Any more updates???

Mike

Not really much to update, it's a 80 mile/day DD and it continues to stop, well.

As Angelo says, the "get around to it" part (of doing the dual circuit fronts) may never happen, esp since it works wonderful as-is.

I want to do discs out back (mostly so I ~never have to adjust them), but I want to keep the cable operated parking brake, and I know I need calipers w//pistons about the size of 914 fronts for balance, which are ~huge for rears.
(The weight distribution probably has something to do with that, that worked perfect on my 914, and the T3 is more tail heavy)

The late T3 rear drums w/larger wheel cylinders give very good balance.

I have several sets of 914 rear discs and spare front calipers... (as well as the late T3 fronts, which seem identical and are ~new) also have a 911 parking brake setup, but the 914 std rotors aren't cut on the ID, not sure if they have the meat the 911 rotors do for the parking brake "drum" setup.

(I'll have to ask around, it's on my list, but my list is LONG)

[Roverjosh]

Not to hijack this thread, but your work has inspired me. I have little time to work on my notch these days, but I desperately need to go through the brakes. So I bought some new calipers from a 1982 BMW 320i with pads. Last winters road salt played havoc on my front calipers. So today I am going to replace the rear shoes and replace rear fluid. Then when the fronts get delivered, l'll take lots of pictures of them going on.

Thanks for motivating me, Piledriver, albeit indirectly.

[GTIXpress]

Question for those that did the 320i calipers: Was there any issue with the mounting location of the brake hose? Since the hose on the factory caliper comes in on the side, whereas the 320's is pointed downware. Are longer hoses needed? Or a small piece of hard line to extend out to the host?

Thanks!

[Roverjosh]

Question.......I bought some calipers for an 83 320i and unfortunately I am using BerT3's drop spindles and they are set for the older calipers where the bolt spacing is smaller. So long story short, I got the wrong calipers.

So, can I get the 2002TI caliper and will those fit or are they set for the wider spacing on the mounting bolts?

Thanks. My stock calipers are mismatched and one is starting to seize a little. So I figured I would upgrade when I get my replacements if I can.........

Thanks,

[Piledriver]

The BMW calipers referred to (2002ti or 320) are late bolt spacing, and early 914/late T3 offset, also bolt on out back of a 914.
The even larger Volvo 240 calipers are AFAIK the same.
For a late 914 front, bolt spacing is correct but ~.125" needs machined off the mounting faces to correct offset.


I believe adapters exist or could be easily fabricated, but even rebuilt stockers should work well with better pads.

[adjunog]

I wouldn't have known a Volvo 240 would closely fit. Having to own one when I was in high school and working on it is a great match up. There are lots in the grave too. Thanks Pile.

[Piledriver]

I finally dual circuited the front brakes today, used the std T3 hoses straight into the calipers (really should have a compression gasket (bubble-flare bit) but they actually sealed up fine due to the outer edge taper..

Simply drilled another hole under the existing hose mount in the existing bracket, used some aftermarket U clips (slightly longer) and it secures BOTH hoses nicely. The length/curvature works out perfectly.

Reused both the T's and a couple of the short lines I was previously using to split the front at the backing plate under the MC.

(Pics RSN)

Quick tip before I forget it:
If you don't have the large bit to drill the hole for the new hose:
(I think it's 15mm or so, 19mm too big)
Drill 9/16" and run a 3/8" pipe tap in/out until the hose shank just fits, clean up with a file.
(same drill/tap as case plugs)

The brakes work even BETTER now, approaching awesome,(F/R balance improved)

[Piledriver]

Ebay ordered some used SoCal Audi Cabriolet rear calipers (complete w/brackets) $22/pair free shipping, look like Mk4 rears, for $22 I'll give it a look.

The lack of rear brake self adjustment finally got to me, with the split circuit fronts there's too much dependancy on play in the rear brake adjustment, it goes from awesome to "meh" pretty quick.

Need an excuse to use my welders anyway.

[Piledriver]

Now have the Audi Cabriolet (~Mk4 like) rear calipers on 914 rotors installed, parking brake works well, still need to bleed them. Handbrake feels ~just like the TDi.

Does anyone know offhand if the Swedish split circuit setup swapped the F/R circuits or used a different master?

Ah...
http://vwtype3.org/scrapbook/4pot/
Looks like I'd have to add a brake line to do it like that, with the l/r split out back, but I like it, wouldn't be THAT hard, other than fishing the new line through. (T3s lack the tunnel rear access cover on top)

The BMW setup pictured above appears to split the outer (usually larger) circuit F/R, and the one closer to the pedal goes to the front only.

The current rear circuit (split to go to rear AND front lower) has a much larger volume than the front (which only has to run 2 30mm pistons) Looks like swapping F/R at the master would be ~trivial.

I guess with discs on all corners (rears self adjust via regular use of the parking brake) the actual movement/volume should be small, so I'm probably thinking too much, I may just try it both ways, just hate to waste the brake fluid.

(pictures to follow, I know the rules )