68 baja build

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:34 pm

A lot of your caster is in the layback of the front beam. Stock angle of the frame head is something like 4° to 6°.

I've heard of lengthening the BJ arms but I'm not sure that I have ever seen them done...maybe once if ever. Your BJs are limited by the slot they ride it. Longer travel BJs are available (the slot has been increased) but they have a rep of not lasting long.

There are other ways to improve the BJ setup but you are still limited by the BJs themselves. The lifted spindles do raise the front end but they still have the same weakness that the stock BJ's have. Thing spindles are different: they raise the front end along with the lower BJ being pressed in differently, the upper BJ has a larger dia shank and the alignment adjuster has a different angle to the bore and it is also bigger to fit the new upper BJ (I've got close to $400 or more on the Thing setup I have. The spindles and adjuster are hard to find. Stock trailing arms will work with the proper press in of the Thing BJs).

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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:14 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:34 pm
A lot of your caster is in the layback of the front beam. Stock angle of the frame head is something like 4° to 6°.

I've heard of lengthening the BJ arms but I'm not sure that I have ever seen them done...maybe once if ever. Your BJs are limited by the slot they ride it. Longer travel BJs are available (the slot has been increased) but they have a rep of not lasting long.

There are other ways to improve the BJ setup but you are still limited by the BJs themselves. The lifted spindles do raise the front end but they still have the same weakness that the stock BJ's have. Thing spindles are different: they raise the front end along with the lower BJ being pressed in differently, the upper BJ has a larger dia shank and the alignment adjuster has a different angle to the bore and it is also bigger to fit the new upper BJ (I've got close to $400 or more on the Thing setup I have. The spindles and adjuster are hard to find. Stock trailing arms will work with the proper press in of the Thing BJs).
i was talking about rear irs arms.

anyways the goal for today was to fix the front end. i found that my linkpins would no adjust far enough to keep the spindle tight so i went to find some more shims in my box of parts to put on the outside positions allowing the little adjustment of the Chinese linkpins to actually tighten. but keeping the same camber.

lucky me i found some nice german linkpins with the box. they appear to have been installed but never abused so on those went. the looseness issue is solved but the drivers side still has alot of camber. i measure the arms and i always end up with camber. i am at about the center of adjustment so im gonna take a guess at what i think it should be and hopefully straighten it out.

got front blinkers on and wired. also got the fiberglass trimmed for maximum tilt then found a stick to prop it with.
I still need to get the cage painted and the holes welded up. hopefully by Wednesday as there is a car show im going to but that may not happen. maybe ill win ugliest car :D

I really hate dealing with torsions so that is important but im procrastinating.
drove it to work today o yeah i have a job i was hired as a handrail fab/weld but recently ive been prepping and painting i beams
i might get moved to an aluminum tig project soon.

and i feel like my clutch is going out. getting more slip than id like. if im dropping the motor im at least doing a top end.
Travis
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:28 am

:oops: I guess that was a harder drive today than I thought. :roll: My wife and I, along with her daughter, are taking a last trip in our motorhome and todays leg was very difficult. I am pooped!

I think you are correct about CV angle. Since the CVs are at the end of the axle so when you lengthen out the arms you also cause the axles to point farther towards the rear which changes the CV angle and arc and probably axle length. Too complicated for tonight: I'll have to think about it in the am, hopefully when I am less tired.

What is being proposed is you to do is lengthening out the hypotenuse leg of a right triangle with the upright leg (torsion pivot to the trans CV leg not changing in length and the axle length (bottom leg of the right triangle) not changing then see what happens. Only one of the legs of the triangle is not going to change and the CV angle is changing.

What Pile said...

Lee

Tried to clarify the argument on Travis's quandary. Sorry but I was more tired last night than I thought.
Last edited by Ol'fogasaurus on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Piledriver
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 am

wider/longer arms are... wider=less angle, longer=more travel for a given CV angle.

Sooo... maybe.
If you are going to that expense of ~3x3 arms, go with T4 CVs and 12" travel is NBD, and the CVs are stronger.

IIRC 3x3s use bus axles, which usually come with T4 CVs attached from the junkyard.
The ~40 year old factory CV boots are frequently in MUCH better shape than aftermarket boots after <1 year.
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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:06 am

I'm keeping this car as stock width as possible so 3x3s are a no I wanna do something 5/1600 style

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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:33 pm

Got one house down the street this morning

And it died. Seemed like it was out of gas but I filled it 2 days ago. Had my dad check on it and he said no fuel in the filter. So I'm thinking fuel pump or a clog somewhere. Ill check. Also make sure I have gas


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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:43 am

Rust can plug the gas tank pickup sock or the line itself.
Can also be caused by a fully sealed fuel system, it should be vented, a fuel vapor recovery system is cheap and easy to make/install, and the best way to safely vent the tank..
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dustymojave
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by dustymojave » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:52 pm

bikesndbugs wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:32 pm
My friend claims you can get 12 inches of travel out of stock irs arms lenthened with stock CVS that doesn't make sense to me because the cv can only take so much angle regardless of the arm length. The only reason I could think of would be that that would straighten the axle so it is unsing all of the angle in up or down rather than splitting the cb angle between forward and up and down

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Hmmm.

Hablas ingles?

12" of rear travel with stock IRS arms and stock CVs is too much drugs and somebody talking out of the wrong orifice.

All the rest of what you said there is apparently Greek or Chinese or some such foreign language, because it made zero sense. Don't try to make sense out of nonsense. Your sentence "you can get 12 inches of travel out of stock irs arms lenthened with stock CVS" reads very confused. So does "that would straighten the axle so it is unsing all of the angle in up or down rather than splitting the cb angle between forward and up and down"
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Longer/wider arms allow more travel if the axle shaft is also longer to match the longer/wider arms. But travel increase with stock CVs is limited to no greater CV angle with the stock CVs than otherwise.

In other words...
3x3 arms with stock CVs will allow more travel than stock arms with stock CVs. But why bother? You still need longer axles.
Richard
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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:06 pm

He was claiming 2 inches longer will fit with stock irs arms and get 12 with stock cvs

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Piledriver
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:01 pm

bikesndbugs wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:06 pm
He was claiming 2 inches longer will fit with stock irs arms and get 12 with stock cvs

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Let me try to translate:
stock width + 2" longer arms will work with stock CVs and give you (more travel).
That is logical, if (probably) impractical. Not too sure about 12".
I have played with narrowing stock arms, but never lengthening.

Seems like a lot of work when stock arms and ~$200 or less in stubs and 944 axles will give you over 10".(12?)
A set of used 3x3s and bus axles/T4 stubs will cost about the same as the lengthened stock arms, and provide at least 12" travel, as well as a wider track and longer wheelbase.
There are probably a few full sets like that on various ORF members scrap piles :lol:

The only way you are getting extra length out of a stock trailing arm is with a sawzall/plasma cutter and welder, and then its not a stock trailing arm...

Yes, you might be able to DIY, but the effort vs results is kinda "why?"

Getrdone (at least) has fabricated his own longer/wider custom arms, IIRC they can be also had as a kit that you weld from at least one place... I doubt you could compete with Mexico on cost, but that might be good welding practice if nothing else.
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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:20 pm

I'm trying to keep my car close to stock width. An inch or 2 on the wheelbase would be nice. And I have 10 inch coilovers I plan to use. Going for 10 to 15 inches based on my 8.5 to 9 inches of travel up front so it makes a good combo. Then get the car weighed and get the shocks tuned accordingly. Hopefully then I have a good workimg car

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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:50 am

But all of that is future planning so I have time
Currently in fighting front wheel camber when I measure to set it never comes out right so I'm just gonna have to take a guess and hopefully I'm right. Anybody know how many degrees one shim will offset?

Also bee struggling with the Carb the float either keeps getting stuck or that little valve it hits does as it keeps running out of fuel in the bowl a bit of carb cleaner and pull the top off put it back fixes it.

My doors are sagging as dusty said they would I looked at a baja that has sipports there but mine won't work that way I'm considering bracing it from the a pillar to the a hoop tube.

Motor cahe might have to be redesigning some to clear dual carbs.

How do I paint the cage without getting paint eberywhere

And finally I snapped an exhaust stud and my clutch is going so might as well do motor too. That will hopefully come soon


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dustymojave
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by dustymojave » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:04 pm

Told ya so!! 8)

A piece of 3/16 x 3" bar stock welded to the A pillar of the cage and with a bend to lay flat to the a-pillar of the body to weld or bolt to the body will fix the sag.

Masking tape and paper to keep thing clean of overspray. Then mask the cage when you paint the interior.
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bikesndbugs
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by bikesndbugs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:54 pm

Okay thanks for the info.
Picked up a trailer a new truck and a few vw parts.

Got a 71 f100 4wd with the 300 i6 with a fresh rebuild on the motor and rear end interior is also beautiful.

Got a doghouse shroud for the bug need to find a fan now.

And finally got some torsions of unknown thickness ill look for the micrometer to measure them.

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201707 ... 141e30.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201707 ... d974a7.jpg[/IMG]


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Piledriver
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Re: 68 baja build

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:18 am

Cool, a real truck, should go ~forever.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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