Lee's ride

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I am still having surver problems here which is one of the reasons it took so long to answer you guys.

Larry, I was not trying to be rude, I had added the smiley face hoping that would clearify that I wasn't; appearently it wasn't enough if several of you thought so.

I have gone through many different scenerios of how to change things on my buggy or how to do it if I started the build over. First and foremost I am not a fan of extoskelitons! If the good lord did not do it, with a few exceptions, then why should I ! (a joke made)

If I started over with a stock pan then the tunnel would have to come out to give more room for seating. Then I could have a good/proper cage built. I think I would start a frame something like Barrett or ACME/Barrien have... rectangular tube for a base then go from there. Heck, I could even have hanging pedels.

My suspension would also change a bunch.

Right now I just want some controlable (this means that it slows down/absorbes some of the action) side protection in an area that does not have or readally allow for it. I had been talking about bead rolling two pieces and conjoining them into a structural object which was thin enough to transverse the tight areas. I am currently thinking about maybe some rectangular tubing say 1" X 2" or more inches. Not sure just what is out there. Bridging like Larry showed is not that condusive to side hits, it is more directional to the bridge itself. While better than nothing tubing bend/flexes more than solid flat sides do as I remember. I am not giving up on the formed pieces as there is a lot to learn there. I also have some measuring to obtain next time down where my buggy is stored.

Remember that on the sand you want to stay on top of the sand and weight is a penalty to that. More weight = more power and/or more floatation which also can translate to more power. A lot of learning and lectures towards that have been given me over the years.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I hope everything is okay Lee.

I survived the first set of tests and there may or may not be a second set. There were times I did not think I was going to make it as uncomfortable and pain were too close together but it has to be done to find out what is going on. I had a nuclear, chemical stress, EKG and a MRI today, as I said, find out what is going on. The symptoms are confusing to all but then I have been this way since a kid. An example: a lower digestive infection that I had for years turned out to be an ulcer (so much for marriage )

Lee

edited to add the word chemical to the word stress. L

[bajaherbie]

I am 55, my mom had her first heart attack at 65. last week I had the nuclear, stress and EKG tests and I am waiting for the doctor to call me with the results.....

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I had my two heart attacks at age 44 (if I remember correctly) about 2 weeks apart. I had a three-way bi-pass '91 while working durning the day and teaching at night while still trying to support my slow pitch mixed league team (popping nitro like candy). My arm was still good but my running was pitful One of the guys on the team said I was the only person he knew of that could stretch a triple into a single. After I threw out a guy from first to third (he challanged me; he looked me holding the ball while he was on second and took off) they guy walked into the bull-pen and asked what happened and someone said "the old fart on first threw you out!". I retired from sports then as things would never get better

One bi-pass failure in 2000 which was about the length of time they said a bi-pass would last (in those days) then a stint in 2007. Because of the med changes about the time of my bi-pass failure things have changed a lot from the time of the bi-pass. People now days have a lot more going for them than we had in my day. I also retired early and getting away from the stress level I was in probably made a difference.

It has been a long time since anything has happened so there is a worry right now as what is going on it very confusing to everyone. They might call me back for a "resting test" (I think that was the name) which means they will stab me again.

Anyway, getting back to the buggy...

[uh60ce]

Its all good....

Totally get your reasoning behind not wanting to cut up or add more holes to the body though, but I keep thinking to myself...its just fiberglass, and short of total destruction there's noting that can be done which couldn't be undone later if so desired.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

You haven't seen me fiberglass have you.

Glad you didn't take offence but there is a lot more to the questions I have than is appearant.

I have long said: "stupid is a moment of brillance usually followed by regret" and I see it a lot on the dunes. I don't now what drives it and I can remember one time doing it myself. Luckly noone was close around.

I am not so worried about the flexing of the pan up and down (yes, it is a worry but not the current one) as I am about the side hits. Bridging is not going to help that much as it is't for that unless designed in the basic build. There are so many intersecting trails out there and some people try to take them as fast as they can... event up to a blind intersection. I don't normally ride those trails especially now days.

During "down times" it was not unusual for some of us to get together and work on things like this. Keeping things light but strong but still using readally obtainable materials (read cheap) really made for interesting discussions. So many ideas that fell short in one area or another.

Anyway, I am still playing with the ideas and I did, and do appreciate all input and I do consider all of it.

Off to the vet (aren't we all animals ) again for hopefully the last tests. Gets old fast!

Lee

[uh60ce]

Hope everything's okay for you.

I kind of think that short of building an armored car, everything I can think of that you can come up with for impact protection is going to end up a compromise in one way or another. The question is how to get the most protection with the least amount of structure and weight without compromising safety a lot.... I have no good ideas there really.

I think if I were trying to build something for side impact protection I'd try to replicate what's used in modern cars. Its designed to absorb the impact and bend, so its going to be a one and done thing as far as that goes.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Hope everything's okay for you.

I kind of think that short of building an armored car, everything I can think of that you can come up with for impact protection is going to end up a compromise in one way or another. The question is how to get the most protection with the least amount of structure and weight without compromising safety a lot.... I have no good ideas there really.

I think if I were trying to build something for side impact protection I'd try to replicate what's used in modern cars. Its designed to absorb the impact and bend, so its going to be a one and done thing as far as that goes.

Reviewing my appt. it is a bit later than I remembered. Also waiting for the traffic on 405 to ease up. We had some rain today.

Abt. your armored car theory, you are right there. It is the proper compormise that I am looking at.

When Steve posted the comments then pix of the door bar it got me excited/thinking again which is where the two piece bead rolled idea came from. Back in the mid-60s I worked on an intercostal that had bead rolling and flanged holes to strengthen it up. An intercostal might be likened to a web between gurders/structureal pieces. The one I was working on was to support the top of a lavatory or galley, I forget which now.

Currently, instead of diagonals which would come in in the wrong area (seat location is way to the rear) maybe one horizontal rectangular tube about shoulder high/at the top of the body line so I can still enter the buggy easily. But then... where do you stop.

A good project when you can't sleep at night (too many of those now days).

Lee
I still am thinking about it as a horizontal or diagonal join between the "A" and "B" hoops but then the idea of rectangular tube also crossed my mind. Even as am typing I am thinking of and discarding ideas (sorry about be rude again )

[uh60ce]

Would a rectangular tube fit in that area though ?

A bar up high and maybe one midway down would offer you some protection. Id probably put them outside the body thought and no further out then the lip of the body. That'd give it a little more room to bend before its into you then being on the inside would.... of course there's always the solution and my brother and I came up with for riding the dunes. ...go in the middle of the week before all the idiots are loose! We spent most of a week over there about 15 years ago and Wednesday was the best day. ..hardly anyone out there.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Would a rectangular tube fit in that area though ?

A bar up high and maybe one midway down would offer you some protection. Id probably put them outside the body thought and no further out then the lip of the body. That'd give it a little more room to bend before its into you then being on the inside would.... of course there's always the solution and my brother and I came up with for riding the dunes. ...go in the middle of the week before all the idiots are loose! We spent most of a week over there about 15 years ago and Wednesday was the best day. ..hardly anyone out there.

I am thinking a 1 X 2 might but it depends on the material thickness I can get. The body would be distroyed anyway I do it but I think I still want it on the inside. Again, I need to do some more research into the beading process as that way the door bar might be a bit thinner. To do it on the outside, with the cage as close to the sidewall of the body as it is, would be very difficult to keep the body and cage as separate entities.

Normally we do not go out on the holiday weekends as you say. This year we had problems and the weekend was the only time we had this late in the year. The family has too many things going on to get everyone together so you do what you have to and laugh if you can.

Actually, it depends on just when the holiday is in relationship to the weekend. Wednesday usually isn't too bad but Thursday in the AM is about the best. A lot of it, again, has to do with the holiday itself. Thursday afternoon is when people start to show up and it is like magic when the rush starts.

Just got back from the vet; might know something in a week but I did survive. Only a shot, wait a half hour then get some pictures taken which took the best part of a half an hour of lying still and don't move a muscle.

If you have seen the picture of my buggy at the ocean, the little tent up was taken some time around 11:00 AM. About 12:00 there were some locals show up on the beach and about 1:00 PM the untralights flew down the beach, next the quads then the rails followed by the Coast Guard helecopters and the sherriff and the Rangers. They came in waves so we packed up and went back to camp for the weekend.

This year it was stupid most of the week and all the camping and day use places were at overflow.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

OK, I got a few minutes to play with the photo editor and came up with 4 basic options pictures with a 5th in the first picture. Nothing is to scale!



This shows a rectangular tube between hoops "A" and "B". It also could be a composite of two sheets that are bead rolled and spot welded together.



This shows what I think Dusty recommended or at least a close variation of it. It is gusseted at the "X" for additional strength.



A variation of both the first and second pictures. Strong and maybe too complicated for the small area. I haven't measured the height of the side wall but I think it might be 2' or less. I think the distance between the "A" and "B" hoops is close to 3' (give or take) based on the pan I have here.



This is a variation of something I had mentioned before... lets call it an intercostal. This is a variation of the above picture.

This is a bent and bead rolled sheet of 18 ga that attaches to the "A" and "B" hoops and (I didn't show it) will attach to the one or two bolts holding the body and body lift onto the panels. It will have a stiffening flange on the upper surface.

Anyway, some ideas.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I got thinking about it this morning and the last picture, the one with the intercostal probably still needs a bar across the top. I am back to the point that the guy who built my cage made that it probably isn't going to do that much anyway. To quote an old saying: "you can make things idiot proof but not damn idiot proof". If a quad at the speed some of them are going can do the amount of damage that I have seen in some of the head-ons' especially when hitting a rail and according to what I have heard of some of the side hits between a quad and a rail, then a SXS, with its additional weight and speed it can go, it would be like "a warm knife in butter".

An internal or an external cage may help on light hits but considering the damage the "greenie" guy, on the kiddy sixed quad and his passenger were able to do, bend a rim on my buggy at the low speed (slower than a slow walk) they were traveling, then there isn't really much one can do to forestall the inevitable. I'll probably go through this exercise again and again but I really an thinking it is futile. It is a lot different than you guys who trail ride or just driving on the street where accidents can happen... this is an out of control situation made worse by the incompetent trying to control it ("nobody tells me what to do!" is something I have heard for many years now and that attitude just makes things worse).

Sorry about taking up space on this.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I had a long but interupted discussion on the side bars for the buggy yesterday while I was picking up some body to pan gaskets for the black buggy.

One of his suggestion was to tuck a tube or extrusion up under the lip of the front to rear fender of the buggy's body. There is stuff up there but mostlly it is supports to run the wiring loom. I got thinking about it and even drew a couple of sketches after do it mentally.

His idea would hide the exoskeleton suggested where it couldn't be seen which was good. After a discussion on just how close the cage was to the body, his suggestion was to put a hole in the body to connect to the cage (I am not a big fan of more holes). He also suggested adding tabs for the bolts to mount the new bracing so it can be removed (bigger holes ).

I did do some additional thinking and by using some tubes for the attaching fasteners to go through, say for at each of the hoops, that pierce the body instead of one large cutout, that would allow the gurder to remain outside of the passenger compartment: reducing wear on the FG and maybe being stronger depending onn how the brackets to the hoops are done. The extrusion (I don't think a tube would works as well/be as strong) would fit against the tubes to be bolted in to an assembly.

That being said; other than the seat belt mounting tube between the two legs of the rear hoop, and the cross bar on the front hoop, there is nothing that supports the hoops to a side hit. The diagonals, if you have them are attached much higher than what would be necessary for that area to support and, in my case, the tubes would have to be bent in order to miss the seats.

More later but the freeway has just opened up after the Chinese pres's motorcade passed.

[uh60ce]

That's (more or less) what it was suggesting with the exo thing. I think it would work.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I am going to try to sketch some thing up but until I can get to where it is kept it is going to be a mental exercise.

Lee