Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:04 pm

Well, I finally got the reinforcing tubing bent, crush sleeves installed, and it welded in the tunnel today. What a pain in the poo-poo. My welder went TU, I had problems welding on the pan, my regulator took a dump, I have problems welding on the pan but now it is done and back to the body lift.

On the welding to the pan; Every time I tried to weld the pan material to the tube (1 X 1 X.120 wall) it woiuld spit and sputter like the gas was not flowing. The sputtering would fill up the nozzle within seconds. I took the welder in to be looked at, and we checked the regulator. It checked out OK so ZI left the welder. Three weeks later (we got back from the dunes) it was finished and he cleaned it and replaced one part. I put everything back together and tried to weld. The same stuff. I then noticed the the tank was emptying to fast you could both see and hear it. Took the tank back and they gave me a new one. Next the regulator went bad. New reglator (sidcount, thanks Central Welding) and tried to weld, It was better but I finally go through the one side. I forgot to mantion that welding anything else was great. I had used some weld trough primer which ai started to blame for the problems.

I got the second tube done and wire brushed the protective surface off the pan then went over everything including the tube with lacquer thinner. I clamped it back in place and started to weld, The same problems but a little less this time. I took a sanding disc on a angle grinder and polished the metal and tried to weld again. It welded better than I could. So it is done and out of the way,

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I still have to put a piece on the front of the tube to hold the nost down must like the apn came with.
Lee

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Hedrock
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Post by Hedrock » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:13 pm

Lee... I just had to put my .02 in on your pan. That thing is amazing :wink: .

I always look forward to you posting more pics of your build.
Collecting parts again... No I'm not going to say why!

Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:20 pm

Thanks for the nice things you said Hedrock. I don’t remember who said it but they said something to the extent that the bar has been raised on this site and I have to agree. I look at the work here and at my work and I get depressed. Even though others are building other types of off-road vehicles there is a level of welding, bending and innovation on this site that is pretty fantastic. Congrats to all who post. Ask questions and those who answer.

This morning I went out to the pan, turned it flat and proceeded to measure for the 1 ½ by 3 by .120 (the only thickness of rectangular tubing I can get around here) walled tubing that I would need for the body lift. Since the “C” shaped portion of the rear part of the lift is done except for some touch-ups and since this is a full length pan, I figured 6’ for each side (very little scrap), each side of the rear cross piece will take 2’ and the front cross-piece will take a little over 3’. I went up to the steel recycling place and got the 21 feet of tubing at a cost of just over $107 (they cut it to length for me for free). That works out to about a $1.46 per pound as I remember. It was new metal so that was nice. Nine percent sales tax is not nice!

When I got home and unloaded, I put one 6’ piece of tube on the side of the pan, did some eyeballing then took it off and marked the points of tangency on the body mount tunnel, start and finish of each radius, on the pan. I then stood back and looked at it, then went into the house and turning on cartoons!

The problem was which of the pieces to I start with. The sides are the easiest, the rear is complicated, and the front is going to be really complicated. Do I wimp out and go with the easiest or go for the hardest and get beat up. Decisions… decisions!

It is going to be a long go making the body lift. This time I am going to try something different on the front cross-piece. Normally, the cross piece is two face plates that match the curve of the body on the top but when the straps are added between the plates the lower line hangs below the top of the cross-piece but higher than the tunnel. The piece is designed as a slip over resting on the two lower flat surfaces of that part of the lift. On my other buggy, I salvaged one from a commercial kit and rebuilt it. One thing about the commercial piece that I didn’t like was that the slots in the front cross-piece, that the support for the lower tube of the beam bolts to, go clear though the cross piece, top to bottom and when you clamp down on the bolts, the flat filler strap collapses. I plan on some changes here. As a side note, the front and rear cross-pieces will/should not have the same loading as the side rails have. Also, I will have to access the curved piece for the nose cone of the 091 transaxle.

On the front cross=piece I will also have to accomodate the bracket for the pedal assembly which will also mean ai will have to loacally relieve the front firewall of the body. This is the bending jig I made for the front cross-piece. I hope is works.

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Lee

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Leatherneck
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Post by Leatherneck » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:49 pm

Pretty sweet idea there Lee, and by the way good idea on the cartoons I should of joined ya. The best way is the right way, but you knew that. :D

Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:13 pm

Cartoons are no brainers, mind nummers so if you are going for a mental breakdown then cartoons will stop it. (lol) I took a course in animation many years ago. Boy, it that a long tedious job. I was into stop animation at the time using Super 8 film and camera. I never did get my stand/table built before video came in, It killed Super 8 over night.

Actually I had to set down and do the pros and cons plus I need to get some sanding discs to clean off all the protective surface material before I start marking the kerfs. Where I get them would have been closed before I could get there so it was time to take a break.
Last edited by Ol'fogasaurus on Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lee

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fortyeye
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Post by fortyeye » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:33 pm

Lee ... I know I'm here rather late on your build, but, did you ever solve your vinyl ester resin situation?
AKA clearsurf

Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:23 pm

Yes, kind of. The brochure was a general statement for all the models he (Redhead Roadsters) made. I did find out that the body is made of a small/close weave S-glass which I can still get.

There are vinyl resins available. It could have been any one of several that have been available. This is per the fiberglass place a few miles north of us.

By the way, if you look up Redhead Roadsters on the web, there is some stuff on them. The biggest thing is the book he made of which I have a copy. It came as part of the package when I purchased the body.
Lee

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:26 pm

I've been busy with other things and projects but have had time to start the body lift. I decided to start with the hard side first as I have to deal with both the new cross-piece and the pedal assembly.

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As I mentioned before, I marked the pan where the bend/arc and tge straight start and the radius sttop. I lay the 3 X 1 1/2 X .120 walled tube on the pan and mark the two tangent points. Then using a combination square, I mark the verticle lines for the kerf and continue them over the top and bottom ending on the fourth side just below the radius of the tube. You have to go over that far or you will have to fight with the radius as you bend the tube. Better now than later. I made the kerfs once inch a part and then added one kerf at each end with a one inch spacing. I found that this is usually necessary to have and this time, again I needed it.

I used cut of wheels to make the kerf on the three sides of the tube and the small notches on the fouth side. You will find that the tube will want to bend away from the notches. Also, I almost forgot, the seam of the tube should be to the inside of the bend. Welded material doesn't like to bend and while this in not a big bend, it is good to get into the habit and always think this way.

YOU can see the welds here that lock the bend in place. I try to leave it clamped during welding to minimze any potential torquing or shringing which makes the bend more than you wanted.

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Looking from the rear forward you can see the potential problem I am going to have with the pedal assembly. I will have to notch and bend this area but I have to make and fit the front cross-piece first.

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Since this is a full sized pan, there is a second bend to be make. These are the marks for the kerfs to make the second bend.

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Another view of where I am. The horse shoe shaped part of the lift that will be part of the rear cross-piece is made and has some spots that had to be welded then ground down to make it look like I know what I am doing.

I sure hope this helps someoine.
Lee

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Leatherneck
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Post by Leatherneck » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:04 pm

Lee, I think you should seriously look into hanging pedals, fix both of the problems.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:19 pm

Seriously I have, several times. The big draw back is that the dash and hood don't come off on this body like they do on the more conventional buggy bodies. I guess I could cut the hood off and make it look good butsome of the strength couold be lost and anyway the buggy might be sold as soon as I get it back on the floor sand sunning gear. I have been at this one, off and on, for over 15 years and I am tired of it (for now anyway).
Lee

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Post by Leatherneck » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:37 pm

To me, make that decision (sell or not ) then build accordingly. You are way past me telling you what you should do but seems you are coming to a fork in the road. But hey if you are having a good time, carry on!

Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:32 pm

I could say one fork-or-'ta'ther.

I think I can safely say now that I have pretty much committed to an off-road build by starting to build the body lift. Because of that decision, I can stay with a single MC for the rear brakes. It was during this final decision making process that I saw the deminis ad which drove the “why” question to you which was about your dual MC conversion in the first place. If, indeed, the casting was/is the same, you could/should easily either make or buy the pedal that they used to turn that same bracket into a dual MC swing pedal assembly. The clutch pedal assembly should be easy after that.

I did look into CNC Brakes web site to see if you could buy the dual MC pedal as a “pedal only” unit from CNC. I never found anything that indicated that they offered the pedal singularly but I don’t think it would take much work to take either take a "U" channel or a square or rectangular tube and turn it into a pedal to work both MCs. All the dimensions are there and there are pixs on the sites.

Am I having fun… sometimes? I stay awake a lot figuring things out or changing things to make them better as we all do… so I guess that is fun. With the success of the other buggy when I changed the shocks also changed my outlook on this. Is the 14.5 inches of wheel base going to make that much difference and is having a unique buggy on the dunes going to make it all worth it? %$#&^@ maybe!

The next decision is how far do I go if I am going to sell this buggy. Things such as:

do I go ahead and install the bus tranny or a sedan tranny. The 091 means cutting a hole in the body lift and moving the shifter to the top of the tunnel. This means CVs and drive axles.

Do I install either a T1 or the v6/091 combo to sell. Wiring will be different between the two also.

Disc brakes or cans.

What about the cage

What about mounting the seats

What about rear seats

Turning brake locations

What about the steering. All the last three things are fitted parts.

I have the parts for the front end which is partly done and the rear suspension is not that far away either.

Am I having fun… yeah… probably… maybe!
Lee

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:04 pm

In one of the recent I posted a picture of a jig I was making to bend a new front cross-piece. I also posted the kerfed side piece with the welds started. That turned out to be a bust. Somehow I got the metal too hot or something as the inner surface shrunk and the bend is too much, Even after clamping the tube in place didn’t seem to help.

I am also having other problems which is not allowing me to do detail work so I decided to start on the bending the front cross-piece. I have a piece of 3 X 1 1/2 X .120 wall rectangular tubing to use. It is a little over three feet long. Since just bending the tube won't work as the lift is straight up and the tube would assume a 3 inch spread at the angle is it at, it has to be bent then the one since has to be removed for a slip over fit.

Using a metal scribe, I marked the OMLs (point of tangency between the arc (in the center of the lift) and the straight sides on the jig. I then clamped a piece of string to the inside of the jig and marked the scribe mark on the string with a sharpie. I then laid the string along the arc until it passed over the other scribe mark and marked that point with a sharpie. I then took the string off and measured the distance between marks and got a little over 7 inches.

I then wiped down the piece of material I was going to use and found the center of it. I then centered the 7 plus inches on the center giving myself some latitude, I used 7 1/4 inches for the two marks. I also found the welded seam of the tube and marked that side as bottom as is will be removed eventually over most of the cross-piece.

I then transferred the marks on all four sides of the tube then cut the tube from the bottom up got sides to just short of the radius of the upper surface of the tube. I then cut out the center that will not be needed making sure that the part marked bottom was the part cut and removed. (see pix).

One curious thing about kerfing or cutting out a full section of the tube, it wants to bend, on its own, to the un-cut side. I then took the piece over to my vice and opened the jaws up wide and using a pretty heavy ball-peen hammer, I proceeded to hammer an arc into it. I made sure that the two sides remained parallel to each other and also checked it to the jig for fit. I finally got it slightly over bent (this is good) and no sharp spots in the bend. I then fitted it into the jig and tightly clamped it in place.

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Monday I wilt get some .120 flat stock (sheet) then make a template and cut the sheet to fit the gap at the arc. When both sides are done then it is onto the leg portions of the piece. It will be done similar but not quite the same.
Lee

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Post by Leatherneck » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:55 pm

Lee, are you going to but the joints or overlap ?

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Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:57 pm

Butt joint! The loading on the front and rear cross-pieces are not usually that much so bevel the two surfaces and butt weld. It will be open at the bottom anyway to slap over the front-cross piece with the exception of the two ends The only tubing thickness I have been able to purchase is .120 wall. A lap joint is probably not warrented.

I am concerned that I might need a fork lift to lift it as it is (lol).
Lee

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