'73 Turbobaja Build
- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
Unfortunately money cannot buy a legitimate "bolt-on" master cylinder setup for these cars. Even companies like CNC who've been making VW specific brake parts for decades don't offer one. Seems odd.
Weeks ago I purchased a dual bore CNC master and started mounting it in the baja. Tatum told me I need 3/4" front and 7/8" rear master. So I found a 2-in-1 master that uses a common reservoir, trying to keep it as compact as possible to hopefully sneak it down in front of the stock pedal still. I made a new top for it that uses the stock inlet fittings so I could just plug it into my stock reservoir hoses and check fluid level MUCH more conveniently than pulling a wheel AND tie rod to get the cap off and use a dip stick to check it . I modified the stock pedal push rod to be as short as possible and mount to the new rod end. And of course I had to carve out holes in both layers of body metal to tuck the MC boots up tight. Everything was looking great, plumbing had been mocked up and I had a template worked up to make a mounting plate that would seal the whole assembly against the wall.
About a week ago I decided I'm not going to run the Tatum hardware. At that time I was still expecting to get a complete NEW rear kit as well as a freshly "engineered" brand spanking new front kit any day in the mail. The whole experience had been so ridiculous already, there's no way I could trust their equipment, much less look forward to dealing with what they call "customer service" if I ever needed anything from them in the future. I can tell when my business is not wanted...eventually.
So, once I jumped on the CNC band wagon, I learned pretty quick my new dual master cylinder is "not going to work" for me. The one step I thought I'd been making in the right direction, was all wrong still! Exactly why it won't work is still not clear, they said it's not a "true balance bar" and one bore will bind the other once it meets resistance. Plus my remote reservoir lid was also "not going to work" according to CNC. The series 240 master was suggested, and mine is coming with a pair of 3/4" bore series 712 remote reservoir cylinders so it'll hopefully still be able to tuck down behind stock pedal.
Moral of the story is don't guess, call and ask questions before you buy expensive stuff that looks cool with a big name on it. It might not be what you really need. And you might find out who answers the phone and who doesn't .
Weeks ago I purchased a dual bore CNC master and started mounting it in the baja. Tatum told me I need 3/4" front and 7/8" rear master. So I found a 2-in-1 master that uses a common reservoir, trying to keep it as compact as possible to hopefully sneak it down in front of the stock pedal still. I made a new top for it that uses the stock inlet fittings so I could just plug it into my stock reservoir hoses and check fluid level MUCH more conveniently than pulling a wheel AND tie rod to get the cap off and use a dip stick to check it . I modified the stock pedal push rod to be as short as possible and mount to the new rod end. And of course I had to carve out holes in both layers of body metal to tuck the MC boots up tight. Everything was looking great, plumbing had been mocked up and I had a template worked up to make a mounting plate that would seal the whole assembly against the wall.
About a week ago I decided I'm not going to run the Tatum hardware. At that time I was still expecting to get a complete NEW rear kit as well as a freshly "engineered" brand spanking new front kit any day in the mail. The whole experience had been so ridiculous already, there's no way I could trust their equipment, much less look forward to dealing with what they call "customer service" if I ever needed anything from them in the future. I can tell when my business is not wanted...eventually.
So, once I jumped on the CNC band wagon, I learned pretty quick my new dual master cylinder is "not going to work" for me. The one step I thought I'd been making in the right direction, was all wrong still! Exactly why it won't work is still not clear, they said it's not a "true balance bar" and one bore will bind the other once it meets resistance. Plus my remote reservoir lid was also "not going to work" according to CNC. The series 240 master was suggested, and mine is coming with a pair of 3/4" bore series 712 remote reservoir cylinders so it'll hopefully still be able to tuck down behind stock pedal.
Moral of the story is don't guess, call and ask questions before you buy expensive stuff that looks cool with a big name on it. It might not be what you really need. And you might find out who answers the phone and who doesn't .
Karl
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- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
It's definitely been one of life's tougher lessons . Good thing there are options out there. I was trying to go the hard route from the beginning with a company who didn't already produce a BJ front kit. I should have known better. Now I know.CentralWAbaja wrote:Oh man Karl, that just sucks. You been fighting with Tatum way to long (Just looked back through my phone to see when I suggested you to call Rich direct) I guess Rich's customer service has a price tag that I didn't realize
Hopefully this will head in the right direction now.
Karl
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- rickosuave1987
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:15 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
Well thanks for sharing your experience Karl. I am bummed that I stood up for a company that didn't stand behind their products. Maybe we are lucky that we got decent parts from them on the race car.
With that said, I have CNC 4 pistons on the back of my baja and love those too. Never had any problems with them since they were installed.
With that said, I have CNC 4 pistons on the back of my baja and love those too. Never had any problems with them since they were installed.
Baja
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- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
I wouldn't let it bother you man. I'm sure there are plenty of their products out there that work great, like they should. My problems were almost entirely with Rich directly. Very frustrating person to try to communicate with. And obviously someone who struggles to be honest with his customers, and himself for that matter.rickosuave1987 wrote:Well thanks for sharing your experience Karl. I am bummed that I stood up for a company that didn't stand behind their products. Maybe we are lucky that we got decent parts from them on the race car.
With that said, I have CNC 4 pistons on the back of my baja and love those too. Never had any problems with them since they were installed.
All my CNC parts should be here Monday, I've got some work to do
Karl
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- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
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Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
Very cool! Looking forward to the install, especially of the dual master cylinders.
I have a not too distant project that will require the same set up.
I have a not too distant project that will require the same set up.
- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
You and me both! After having a closer look at things and comparing where I was with the other dual master vs. this beast, it's going to be a challenge alright. Very tight, but I might be able to get away with it and not disturb too much of the tunnel integrity while I'm at it. Just not the most enjoyable location to do fab on a built car. Might just end up pulling the fuel tank, etc. for safety/access.JUSSUMGUY wrote:Very cool! Looking forward to the install, especially of the dual master cylinders.
I have a not too distant project that will require the same set up.
Karl
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Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
NICE!
So I take it you will not be at the Portland bug in this Sunday with the car?
Mike
So I take it you will not be at the Portland bug in this Sunday with the car?
Mike
Jackpot motorsports
- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
I wish. I'm in a local wedding this weekend, trying to do what I can between all the events over the past few weeks to keep progress moving. Wasted half my summer waiting on Tatum...560 wrote:NICE!
So I take it you will not be at the Portland bug in this Sunday with the car?
Mike
Karl
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Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
The wedding was MUCH better than the bugin, about half of the attendance of last year.
Glad you are getting the things sorted out with the car finally.
Your knowledge is your virtue, the other guys that buy the parts and bolt them on and think things are all good and months later things start to go sideways and they get upset and park the car, let it sit for months then sell it for almost scrap price, then another kid gets the project and has the same problems.
Quality control and communication in the industry is really lacking.
Mike
Glad you are getting the things sorted out with the car finally.
Your knowledge is your virtue, the other guys that buy the parts and bolt them on and think things are all good and months later things start to go sideways and they get upset and park the car, let it sit for months then sell it for almost scrap price, then another kid gets the project and has the same problems.
Quality control and communication in the industry is really lacking.
Mike
Jackpot motorsports
- turbobaja
- Posts: 2826
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
Glad I didn't miss too much down there at the Bug In. I'm still pushing hard to be drivable for the Northwest VW Nationals in a month.
Making good progress at least with the master install. This is a pretty complicated puzzle to piece together, in a location that's very hard to work on. Mounting this modified contraption in a way it was never intended to be mounted has been really challenging. I think it just might work though .
The nose of the balance bar assembly needed to shrink so it could fit up behind the pedal assembly. Mounting flange not needed, etc.
This is a roughed in shot, still shaping the "window mounting flange".
Managed to tuck it right up to the tunnel w/out having to pocket it AT ALL .
The nose and balance bar fit right up behind the brake pedal. Hopefully the short pedal rod won't cause any trouble, everything moves smooth on mock up.
Making good progress at least with the master install. This is a pretty complicated puzzle to piece together, in a location that's very hard to work on. Mounting this modified contraption in a way it was never intended to be mounted has been really challenging. I think it just might work though .
The nose of the balance bar assembly needed to shrink so it could fit up behind the pedal assembly. Mounting flange not needed, etc.
This is a roughed in shot, still shaping the "window mounting flange".
Managed to tuck it right up to the tunnel w/out having to pocket it AT ALL .
The nose and balance bar fit right up behind the brake pedal. Hopefully the short pedal rod won't cause any trouble, everything moves smooth on mock up.
Karl
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- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:02 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
Looks like it belongs there.
Good job Karl.
Good job Karl.
BRAT Motorsports #936
Bolt Center: Salt Lake City, Ut
ACE: Air Cooled Engineering, now Black Line Racing
Bolt Center: Salt Lake City, Ut
ACE: Air Cooled Engineering, now Black Line Racing
- bajaherbie
- Posts: 9959
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:07 pm
Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
are you finished yet?
Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.
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Re: '73 Turbobaja Build
You've done a very clean looking job Karl.
Lee
Lee
- CentralWAbaja
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