Basic Off-road Ball-Joint Beam rebuild PT 2 starts on p. 13

[bajaherbie]

I thought Gonzaga was a candy bar....

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

Oops!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I don't remember where I posted this info so it is going here in-case anyone needs it.

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These two pix show the difference between the stock bug and the longer spindles. The spindle location on the bus spindle gives about a 2" raise to the front suspension.

The upper BJ can interchange but the bus unit is heftier and the alignment adjuster is different because of it. It is hard to find and can be expensive.

Bug spindle.JPG

This is a stock bug front spindle. Notice that on the lower BJ the BJ itself is pressed into the lower arm from the top down What this means is that on something like a hard landing the lower BJ could be pulled out and it has happened many times.

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This is bus (thing ?) front spindle. Notice the BJ is now facing down on the stock trailing arm. This way the BJ is less likely to be done in.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I may have screwed up on the separation of the bus and Thing spindles. I am pretty sure the spindles I posted that I have are Thing as I now remember. I am getting pretty old and may have remembered incorrectly . I haven't been able to find a good description of the differences.

Lee

[Dougstr]

Thanks for all the hard work that went into this thread. What a great discussion!

[Dougstr]

So the Security bug had a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago. I had been eyeballing the ball joints and thinking they were needing attention. Sure enough

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A short three-mile hike to a high point and I got cell coverage. And then it was waiting until my rescue crew arrived. Unfortunately, rescue was just a ride back to town I to find a trailer.

Did this to get it on the trailer.

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The hardest part was getting it off the trailer back home.

Now I am trying to decide the best balance of reinforcement. I am going to pull the beam off and weld up the seams. I think I will also put gussets on the towers. Going back and forth about the stops. I am also warring with the sway bar. I pulled it off but this car is not a racer. I am traveling between 15-20 MPH most of the time. It does spend about 70% of its time on gravel roads 10% on dirt and the rest on the pavement. The gravel roads are mostly decent but there is the occasional 6 inch minus roads.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your wisdom and have a great day!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Doug, the beam you saw in most of the thread is gone as the shock towers were too rotted to deal with. As I said, that damage didn't get found until I was quite far along so I do recommend a good look at everything. Also, the welding of the seams of the shock tower is more than just a good idea as is the cross shaft.

I am also warring with the sway bar. I pulled it off but this car is not a racer. I am traveling between 15-20 MPH most of the time. It does spend about 70% of its time on gravel roads 10% on dirt and the rest on the pavement. The gravel roads are mostly decent but there is the occasional 6 inch minus roads.

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I haven't done it as I couldn't remember if there was enough clearance so you got me thinking about it again so I just went out and check and I can't the as the radius between the hood and front fenders (the British refer to fenders as "Wings" even today) is about the best part of an inch below the shock towers.

So, as I said I started on a new beam but got sidetracked by the rest of the buggy . If you haven't already you will find that there are times to move onto other things as you get tired with what you are doing then make mistakes.



I got started on this beam: stripped it down so I could see what I had, got new end seals and got a single adjuster for the top tube. In my case I don't really need all the front suspension stiffness on the sand (in my case no weight like the fuel tank is in the front as well as steel body and fenders) but do need a back up for those just-in-case situation but in your case your situation is probably different. There are a couple of ways to raise or lower the suspension also to adjust the suspension:

You can cut and turn one or both suspension tubes, you can change/modify the stack of torsion bars or you can add adjusters. Each one is a guess but the best one (I think) is using adjusters. In my case, as I said, I am modifying only the upper tube so I can change settings or, if I need to, I could add an adjuster for the lower beam also to raise and lower. Using the adjusters allows you to change your mind on the setting while the other ways don't as easily.

If you can find a set and afford them the Thing front suspension, as I showed in pictures are the way to go off-roading. They are getting rare and expensive now as there weren't that many Things out there (no pun intended).

I forget what year your Baja is but on the shock absorber choice front and rear is so very important. Being in law enforcement I am sure you are more than familiar with that.

You asked about the sway bar: " I am also warring with the sway bar. I pulled it off but this car is not a racer. I am traveling between 15-20 MPH most of the time. It does spend about 70% of its time on gravel roads 10% on dirt and the rest on the pavement. The gravel roads are mostly decent but there is the occasional 6 inch minus roads." If I remember correctly 6" is about the max on stock front suspension hence I would highly recommend the suspension stops. If not your shock do that duty and it makes it easier for the lower ball-joints to be pulled on or even pulled out of its trailing arm. With modifications (I don't recommend those BJs as they were quite quickly) a BJ can go close to 9" of travel.

I did have a problem with my blue buggy where I was going fairly slowly (under 20 mph) down a dirt and sand trail when I hit a water washout (known as one of the types of "No-See-ums" (until it is too late) that was hidden from view. My suspension collapsed to a point where both shocks were tightly jammed within themselves and it took three of us with levers to get the driver's side to pop free. Changed the shocks for sure!.

Looking at your picture again it looks like the BJ was pulled apart so if one is that weak then I sure would change them all. Look at the other steering parts also including the box and the join to the steering shaft.

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These are commercial pieces that support the frame head. Recommended.

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This is a Kaffer or also known as a truss bar. A must have as it keeps the trans and engine in place more Ridgely. There is a another version from Mendola known as a "Stiffy" that has an extra tube going to the IRS arm pivot that looks to be a bit stronger.

Doug, if you can find it there is a book by Jiff Hibbard called BAJBA BUGS & BUGGIES (the revised addition) that is a good source of information. It is an older book but still a good source of information.

Lee

[Leatherneck]

Doug, props in the field repair. Very nice, like your way of thinking. I can’t help much in the Ball joint front end, mostly just seen field repairs done.

[Dougstr]

Yep, got the Hibbard manual. It helped me get the first one together all those years ago! I am going to be looking into the Kaffer bar. I sure wish a guy could find Thing parts or there was an aftermarket solution. I talked with Rich Burkholder at Spinreel ATV. They used to have a Thing there. Not much left but a shell now.

The good thing with the Security Bug is it was stored inside and had a good undercoat. So far very little rust.At any rate I have the front beam off now and am starting in

[Steve Arndt]

That is exactly why thing spindles and arms are the best path w ball joint setups. Both ball joints load from the top and point down so they don't pull apart like that.

[CentralWAbaja]

I do like a good trail fix. Nice! Where was that photo taken Doug? Looks familiar.

[Dougstr]

The 3020 road off of Bone Mountain Coos County Oregon. Part of my patrol area.

[Dougstr]

So one of the issues I am finding with the security bug is the amount of time it takes to get parts, especially with the Covid crap going on. I went ahead and ordered new arms from SoCal with the ball joint already pressed in. Replacing all four. Figured I would have an extra set so I wouldn't have downtime the next time I have to swap out. My goal is to do this job for ten years. And, to keep this car going for the same time. And as any good piece of equipment, it needs to have minimal downtime. That was part of my struggle with pulling the beam off and reinforcing it. But since I was already halfway there I figured I might as well go-ahead. I got the seams half welded up. Finish that up today and decide what to do about the stops. I think I am going to go with straps that way I can swap out for the other arms. I know that is not the bomb proof way to do it, but there is also going to potentially a pan replacement in the future and that will most likely mean my old 65 pan converted to IRS with the king pin.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

So one of the issues I am finding with the security bug is the amount of time it takes to get parts, especially with the Covid crap going on. I went ahead and ordered new arms from SoCal with the ball joint already pressed in. Replacing all four. Figured I would have an extra set so I wouldn't have downtime the next time I have to swap out. My goal is to do this job for ten years. And, to keep this car going for the same time. And as any good piece of equipment, it needs to have minimal downtime. That was part of my struggle with pulling the beam off and reinforcing it. But since I was already halfway there I figured I might as well go-ahead. I got the seams half welded up. Finish that up today and decide what to do about the stops. I think I am going to go with straps that way I can swap out for the other arms. I know that is not the bomb proof way to do it, but there is also going to potentially a pan replacement in the future and that will most likely mean my old 65 pan converted to IRS with the king pin.

Ahhh! That makes sense.

The straps are for "hang" part of suspension but it is the compression part of the travel that is the biggest part of the problem. I ride the Oregon dunes in Coos Bay and Bajas, while still around are not that often seen on the sand.

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The last time out with my blue buggy a guy in a RZR coming "lickity-split" in the other direction gave me a thumbs up as he passed. They still like to see the old stuff out.

If you are reasonable careful, and keep speeds under 25mph on mildly to rougher roads 10years of use for the BJs would seem to be very doable.

A pan replacement leads to a lot of fun and time though. I made my own body lift as the commercial ones were more for show/looks than for strength.

https://www.ebay.com/i/142185167467?chn ... e6810dbc36

This seems to be a current design for a body you see on the web. It looks like a nice design but it is made from channel rather then boxed into a tube so it's weaker. They also have a tendency to rot quickly based on one I was given. It ended up that I could only use the Napoleon's hat part and that was after I replaced part of the bottom mounting flange.

Since I have a glass body and the buggy has no top structurally I needed to do something. I first had a cage built then, after the beam problem I told you about with the front beam locking into a compressed position, where the tires wore into the body when trying to get home, I used a 1 1/2" X 3" tube to start with then kerfed the tube to make the bends then put a doubler over the kerfing. Another trick I used was to put a doubler in the body mount channel. I used a 1" thick walled tube but when I was figuring out the seat locations and had not bolted the body lift to the doubler the doubler took a bend set. A 1 X 2 would have been a better choice and one would have a pan skid plate in the process. (there are pictures in both my blue buggy and black buggy builds).

"my old 65 pan converted to IRS with the king pin."

Ball joints came in '66 and IRS came in '68 as I remember. There are pivot kits and all kinds of trailing arms to convert to IRS for the King and Link front end years. If you plan on doing this then a body lift is most likely going to be in the plans. Whoof!

A build sure can run into a lot of time can't it.

Lee

I forgot to mention that sometime in '71 I think VW changed the spring plates from double plates to a single plate and the bolt count and locations are different... not really adaptable to switch stuff between the two designs.

[Dougstr]

I thought I should show you guys the shop so you could see the fantasy that never quite got off the ground. It will give you a little more of my background

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Someone said on here the longer something stays on jack stands the more likely it is to stay there, and in the case of this poor bug that certainly is true, I think that rig has been there for fifteen years. I have everything (just about) to build another bug, and now that I am semi-retired and have started down this path I think I may be able to make it happen and at the same time keep the Security Bug alive. If nothing else it will be fun trying.