Finally broke my spindle

[Piledriver]

Since the subject of the original thread was broken wimpy link pin spindles when off road riding (speedo cable hole creates a high stress area), what are you trying to accomplish Pile? Your car is ball joint so it has strong spindles already. You don't offroad, so you don't break spindles. Maybe a new thread in the suspension sub forum for your custom build would be appropriate.

Simple:This setup is perfectly viable for serious off road racing use, and the idea came to me in this discussion in the off road forum...

I will defer to the negative comments and restrict all further discussion to the suspension and brakes forum if you would all prefer I not discuss an inexpensive super duty spindle/hub/wheel setup that is less likely to break in a thread on broken spindles.
I guess "off topic" posts or unconventional solutions aren't allowed in the ORF, eh?

Also note the stretched, a-arm, mid-engined TOW'D I'm considering would have >36" long rear trailing links, and would be capable of ridiculous travel, and perfectly off road capable, even if that is not the immediate evil plan.

It is also surprisingly inexpensive.
The long, weld in 2" axle stubs are ~$50.
(I bought a L&R pair in the form of a matched pair of used crmo front a-arm spindle assemblies for $63, shipped)

You can get a new one wheel hub "kit" (hub/rotor/bearings/seals) for $169, Winters hub
(with your pick of a selection of rotors)

I was just debunking "too heavy", it's lighter than most setups in all likelihood, and far stronger.

You can also buy link pin front spindles with the 2" hollow axles, and the stubs look like they could ~easily be fitted to the stock steering knuckle if one was demented enough to try.

These are for 5x205 and link pin...
http://www.mooreparts.com/11685-JM-USA-2H*/
EDIT: These are for these wide5 hubs

CNC also sells a setup for A-Arm front ends.
http://www.racereadyproducts.com/cnc-di ... uspension/
I'm curious what those solid aluminum hubs weigh...
EDIT:These use the same "wide5" axles/bearings, just 5x205 with solid aluminum rather than hollow hubs.

This doesn't have to cost $2K/axle... not even close

Still working on how to drive a rear setup with a stub axle or CV.
I suspect it's doable and should be as light or lighter, and likely stronger, than a $$$$ microstub setup.

[Leatherneck]

Anytime we can find a better, durable, cheaper way of doing it then lets go.

[Piledriver]

Thank you, Leatherneck.

I'm ~$350 (including shipping, heavy stuff) into it and have all 4 hubs/4 rotors/front calipers etc.
Unless I find a good score on some .81" Dynalite forged calipers I'll work with what I have.
Working with Devastator on drive adapter bits for the back, looks probably doable.
(need to get dimensional drawings made up)

Steel wide5 wheels can be had for <$50 new, but kinda dumps all over the lightweight aspect of the goal.
(The steel beadlocks are not a whole lot more, for serious off road folks)
Still... much lighter than stock steel wheels.

I have a spare (early) T3 front end, so i intend to try milling a nice 2.5" hole in the steering knuckle, and pressing/TIG these in. I'm wondering if a tungsten carbide-toothed hole saw would be sufficient.
(in a mill, should be able to drill clean and straight?)

The spuds on the axles are ~3" long and 2.5" diameter, so you could set ~any depth and even put them in a bit higher/lower or at a slight angle.

At least it will keep me off the streets at night for awhile.

[Piledriver]

Someone asked how sprint car spindles are fabricated, these are for another app nut the construction is very similar:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thre ... es.449350/

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I didn't go back and re-read the whole string again but based on some of the discussion on the previous page wouldn't it be easier, maybe cheaper and safer not to bore, rebore or plug a beefed up spindle but to go with a GPS type of speed-O? You wouldn't have to worry about being accurate when having front tires that are 10 or 20 inches in dia. over the dia. of stock tires.

It is something I have been looking into for the sand. There are speed limits on the OR dunes: 25 mph on the beach (it is part of the fed highway system) and 55 mph on the dune areas both of which can be monitored by the authorities and (maybe) the "greenies" while having their "periods".

[Leatherneck]

Nothing to do with Piledrivers Spindle breakage post but Lee, I would just hook up the GPS in your case. Interesting build on the japlopy spindle. Guess it doesn't matter who builds it somebody has to critique it.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

My reply was meant to be in a more broad contex reply Leather, I wasn't critiquing 'Piles idea at all.

Spindle bending and breakage is a problem that has been around for a long time and the idea of boring the spindle's spud doesn't make things better even though you are adding a second surface for stress to travel down; if it can be done... someone is going to ruin what every they do. With everything going electronic why not go the best/easiest route (unless you are in a cave) and not worry about gearing (not so much of a problem with a spindle based speedo unit) and/or tire size when beating feet down a trail with a non-posted speed limit or the need for a distance calculator.

By-the-way, I think you (metaphoric you) just might be surprised on just how things are going to change in the future and probably not all for the good (I've listened to Rangers talk).

[Leatherneck]

Lee the critique comment was made about the guy questioning the guy who built the spindles, he was knocking the safety aspect of it.

I know guys who can break an Anvil, some are that good.

Surprises keep things interesting.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I guess I must not have not have read the last few posts that way; too tired to read it that carefully I guess. My bad!

Lee

[Piledriver]

Leather may have been referring to posts in the linked thread...

For some setups, the only way you are going to get a spindle is make it.
The really high end off road stuff seems to be all fabricated, some with bolt on snouts.(but really good bolts )

If I want dropped or raised spindles for my squareback for example, no one makes those, and the one guy that once did still ended up copying the traditional T1 style setup, where you cut the back of the spindle mounting plate off of the spindle you want, cut the target spindle spud off flat, and weld the two together, which gives at least +1/2" more scrub and track per side. I even considered Mk1 Golf//Rabbit rear axle stubs, which are "ball joint" stubs that bolt on.

Theres another joker on TOS that does T3 drop spindles a different (very questionable) way that destroys the suspension geometry, but those folks only have an inch or so of ground clearance anyway...

I want to bore a hole and press in a CrMo spindle spud and weld it in, stock scrub radius, no extra track, and reinforce as needed. Late T3 spindles are hard enough to come by stock, and there is a little bit of previous damage to my stock ones from spun bearings in times past... The trick is there seems to be argument/confusion as to what alloy they are, heat treated or not etc. Just being able to save a stock spindle with a replacement stub would be a win.

At least with the fully fabricated setups there is no question what material was used, where.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Since most of us could not afford the heat treat ovens that would be required for custom spindles. ARP is now touting that their threads are rolled in place after HT... good stuff!

Welding the spuds have to take out some of the HT.

I forget the term but (at least) 4WD trucks now have the bolt on hubs and after market replacements for them so I wonder if they could be made to work with an off-road or racing steering situation.

Lee

[Piledriver]

The question:
1) are they heat treated from the factory?.. and
2) does the alloy they are forged from have enough carbon to heat treat?

Its a part you'd much rather have bend than break, and the only wear surface is for the grease seal, and even that is often sleeved in factory designs.

High strength bolts are an entirely different case, and ARP et al have been rolling threads post hardening as long as I can remember.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

http://www.partsgeek.com/b1qb5z2-ford-e ... 1620898048

Good, bad or indifferent, this is the bolt on style of front hub I was talking about. I think they are common in other makes but I also think I have seen replacement/new design for that style of hub (for other vehicles too).

The last bolt design I worked on was a shoulder bolt re-design, back in the mid-70's. The fastener was used for mounting the P&W engines on the struts and the struts to the wings. The bolts were drilled for a special grease to be packed in to help control size change due to the cold air at 30K+ feet. The shoulders were starting to show strut off-set due to more powerful power plants being installed. The shoulder bolts were not (FED) standards as I remember but proprietary to the company I worked for. The other bolt designs I worked on became FED standards (by-in-large) in the mid-60's and I haven't kept up with fastener designs as there was too much other stuff to keep up-to-date on. The only time I got involved with fasteners was when I got called into fastener problem solving meetings as more of a "where/what is the problem and how do we fix it type of meetings" and that pretty much stopped in the mid-90 when I was re-assigned to another type of problem solving team.

[Piledriver]

Very common setup these days, uses sealed bearings and is usually replaced as a throw away unit, sometimes not even serviceable.

I think the off road folks call them microstubs if they connect to a CV: Frequently the same units are used F&R on newer cars AWD or not.

Bay busses (211-) and 911s and related use the same front bearings, not sure if everything else bolts on and lines up, but I suspect the stub is same.



Here's a Mk1 rear stub: Later ones are very similar.
Its a "ball joint" spindle.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Yes, I had one go in my "almost a truck" (Sport Trac) which is why I was somewhat aware of it. I've seen them used on vehicles used more aggressively than my almost a truck also. For lighter vehicles, assuming they, or something like them, could be mounted to a spindle sans the stock bung the concept might not be that bad. Something to constipate over... maybe.

For what it is worth.

Lee