ugh, not again already
-
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Got to it. Hope I didn't screw up more than I gained. The lesson learned will come later. Cut off the first attempt at the the lower engine cage that nobody [me included] liked and started on plan b. Huh, got a new camera and now need to resize my pics smaller than 800x600? So, got started on the engine cage. Used my buddies help bending because he is much more experienced. We think the bends are right and now just needs some massaging and tweaking with the angle finder. Yes, they should line up with the verticals above.
Now the bad part. Hope somebody else benefits from this. While unloading, the front arm,[arms?] folded forward until I could feel the bind. I was busy watching the rear tire/ramp. The left front tire had toed out and folded under. Had to do with how the front brakes grabbed while the weight transferred. Pulled forward and things kind of came around when the arms rotated back to normal. Got it off the trailer using no brakes and got it into the garage. Now I need to go over the front end and see if anything was damaged. IF THE FRONT SHOCKS WERE ON, THIS COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
Now the bad part. Hope somebody else benefits from this. While unloading, the front arm,[arms?] folded forward until I could feel the bind. I was busy watching the rear tire/ramp. The left front tire had toed out and folded under. Had to do with how the front brakes grabbed while the weight transferred. Pulled forward and things kind of came around when the arms rotated back to normal. Got it off the trailer using no brakes and got it into the garage. Now I need to go over the front end and see if anything was damaged. IF THE FRONT SHOCKS WERE ON, THIS COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
WooooF! Hate to see or hear that that happen.
The first thing I would do would be to get that wire hanging down up and out of the way. Actually things dangling like that do distract you from what you are doing even if you don't realize it.
I would then figure out the max distance to your sump you want the ground to be then put a board or something there and use it as a spacer/jig for figuring out your engine cage.
Most of the commercial engine cage kits have longer rear tubes off the back of the lower bar on your buggy and go straight to the engine mount but nothing I know of says you can't put a 15°or so bend behind the engine for additional ground clearance. Don't make it too much but for car design, if I remember correctly, the lift is 15° (used to be mandated if I remember correctly) minimum for driveway clearance through sidewalks and other things like that. Loading on and off you trailer via ramps should be of some help. Try rolling your buggy on forward then turn it around and back it up the ramps (I load my buggies on backwards for both balance and the fenders not giving the car some aero-lift going down the road at freeway speeds). The space in-between the ramps will give a false reading so accommodate the gap.
The first thing I would do would be to get that wire hanging down up and out of the way. Actually things dangling like that do distract you from what you are doing even if you don't realize it.
I would then figure out the max distance to your sump you want the ground to be then put a board or something there and use it as a spacer/jig for figuring out your engine cage.
Most of the commercial engine cage kits have longer rear tubes off the back of the lower bar on your buggy and go straight to the engine mount but nothing I know of says you can't put a 15°or so bend behind the engine for additional ground clearance. Don't make it too much but for car design, if I remember correctly, the lift is 15° (used to be mandated if I remember correctly) minimum for driveway clearance through sidewalks and other things like that. Loading on and off you trailer via ramps should be of some help. Try rolling your buggy on forward then turn it around and back it up the ramps (I load my buggies on backwards for both balance and the fenders not giving the car some aero-lift going down the road at freeway speeds). The space in-between the ramps will give a false reading so accommodate the gap.
Lee
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
-
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
I try not to use reverse if I can avoid it. I have blown out several. Seems a lot of the high horsepower sand rails winch them onto their trailer backwards to save their reverse gear.
- Leatherneck
- Moderator
- Posts: 17104
- Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Thats a bummer, thanks for passing the info on..
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
I was referring to pushing it up and in forward forward and backwards. You can see more when things are moving slowly. I do back it onboard especially when there is a slight hill I could back the trailer into but to be honest I usually winch it in like you.
Backing on lets you balance the trailer for tongue weight wise then use spring lines to tie it in place then easily rebalance the loaded trailer when and if necessary which has happened to me a couple of times when the load in the back of my "almost a truck" changed things significantly.
Mostly I figure to the worse condition then build to cover it. You can't cover all posibilities so look for as bad as you cover then drive to accommodate those worse ones.
Backing on lets you balance the trailer for tongue weight wise then use spring lines to tie it in place then easily rebalance the loaded trailer when and if necessary which has happened to me a couple of times when the load in the back of my "almost a truck" changed things significantly.
Mostly I figure to the worse condition then build to cover it. You can't cover all posibilities so look for as bad as you cover then drive to accommodate those worse ones.
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
I like the angle on the back of the under bars. It's like my car. I tried to link to that photo of it, but it's not working.
I DON'T like the sump. The loss of ground clearance is not good. I understand you're not using the car so much for hard core offroad. So not so much of an issue there.
I DON'T like the sump. The loss of ground clearance is not good. I understand you're not using the car so much for hard core offroad. So not so much of an issue there.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Yeah, not everyone who rides where I do run 1 1/2 qt sumps but after loosing 3 engines due to oil starvation when climbing/going down or side-hilling but, in my case, the sump did solve my problem. I also don't beat the crud out of my toy either.
I do like the idea of adding a bit more clearance for driveways and the transition to and from an angled surface.
I do like the idea of adding a bit more clearance for driveways and the transition to and from an angled surface.
- Leatherneck
- Moderator
- Posts: 17104
- Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Lee, do you run a Windage tray? I have in mine since the beginning of this thing.
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
No, I just have some steep dunes to navigate or fight if they collapse while I am on the face. I keep the RPMs well under 5000.
The bad hill I don't do anymore but it is the going down it, at idle, in first gear while straddling both sides of the dune (a 30' foot drop into a lake... on either side) using the turning brakes and the throttle to keep from sliding down through the trees into the lakes. Going up it is easier unless some jerk decides to jump the top and down onto the trail w/o looking or having a spotter at the top. I posted a pix of the bottom of it where I nicked a tree and tore out an A-arm several years ago. The rangers did close off an intersecting trail towards the top because of so many incidents there.
The bad hill I don't do anymore but it is the going down it, at idle, in first gear while straddling both sides of the dune (a 30' foot drop into a lake... on either side) using the turning brakes and the throttle to keep from sliding down through the trees into the lakes. Going up it is easier unless some jerk decides to jump the top and down onto the trail w/o looking or having a spotter at the top. I posted a pix of the bottom of it where I nicked a tree and tore out an A-arm several years ago. The rangers did close off an intersecting trail towards the top because of so many incidents there.
-
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
The bind I felt was the tie rods dragging the frame rails. No real damage.
Started fitting the bars my buddy bent. Buddy bender fail. the right side hit the header. I figured this out after getting the left side looking good. Got out the kids bender and got to it. After a few minor modifications[chop chop] I got the right side looking ok. Using my bending reference marks on the right side, the left side is coming together quickly. I hate to slug and plug, but I could waste a lot of tubing trying to get it in one piece.
Started fitting the bars my buddy bent. Buddy bender fail. the right side hit the header. I figured this out after getting the left side looking good. Got out the kids bender and got to it. After a few minor modifications[chop chop] I got the right side looking ok. Using my bending reference marks on the right side, the left side is coming together quickly. I hate to slug and plug, but I could waste a lot of tubing trying to get it in one piece.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Can you get the engine in and out as the pix show? If not some disconnect brackets are often used. Looks good though.
- Leatherneck
- Moderator
- Posts: 17104
- Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Lee, zooming in (Shift +) the bottom rails under the engine to the rear are removable. Yes, looking good.
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Noticed that it looked to be a sleeved join (I didn't zoom in) and through bolted, just not sure that that was the best place and best hits.especially after a couple hard hits. It could have some advantages though.
On my laptop it is press Ctrl and + at the same time or go to the three dots (in the upper right side under x) then choose "zoom".
Sleeved joins are OK in most situations but can jam or cause other problems (problematic) in other situations. A flange w/bolt holes at the top and something at the bottom would/might allow the cage to be easier taken off if the cage was "damn"-aged.
On my laptop it is press Ctrl and + at the same time or go to the three dots (in the upper right side under x) then choose "zoom".
Sleeved joins are OK in most situations but can jam or cause other problems (problematic) in other situations. A flange w/bolt holes at the top and something at the bottom would/might allow the cage to be easier taken off if the cage was "damn"-aged.
Lee
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
-
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Some of the old pics are missing, so I will put a pic of my failed flanges. You can see why I am not a fan of them, but will be necessary on my cage. The slugs I will be using under the motor mount will need to be longer so I can locate the bolts behind the push rod protector I have planned in my simple mind. They will basically come up from the bottom tube on each side of the head up to the diagonal with a tbd bend all while allowing access to valves, plugs, ect. Using 1.25x.120 for slugs and these flanges.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 17731
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: ugh, not again already
Those are not my favorite ones either but sometimes you have little to no choice. My druthers, with them, is a supporting tube inside the tube at the bracket that slides into the joining tube to help support both of the tubes at the join which should help some removing a lot of the load away from the flanges and fasteners. Does that make sense?
Not telling you what to do but giving some ideas to "chew" on. Still not the best of joins but again... sometimes you have little to no choice on things. I do like the support at the joint.
Not telling you what to do but giving some ideas to "chew" on. Still not the best of joins but again... sometimes you have little to no choice on things. I do like the support at the joint.