68 baja build
- Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: 68 baja build
Now you have to build a power-lift bike carrier on the rear cage.
There's a good coil spring calculator on pirate4x4, specifically for dual spring setups.
Mostly need to know your corner weights and motion ratio, suggest measuring/calculating it at ride height.
There's a good coil spring calculator on pirate4x4, specifically for dual spring setups.
Mostly need to know your corner weights and motion ratio, suggest measuring/calculating it at ride height.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- bikesndbugs
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 am
Re: 68 baja build
https://goo.gl/images/jE7hA8
https://goo.gl/images/SPH6xK
these could be interesting the first is cooler but looks heavy. I do have a little trailer that i could tow. if i were to make it work like that itd be hard on the motor maybe a single port would do it. I want a single port stroker for good low end power. maybe i should just go subaru but thats way to much work and im way busy. The dirtbike is a sort of enduro its got head and tailights maybe ill try to get it street legal.
or i could just throw it in the back of a friends truck give him some gas money and flat tow the bug behind it. ive got one of the flat tow bars.
My friend is really trying to get me to go irs. Hes got a jig and arms. Gotta get the rest but thats not yet. DO you guys think a cage is do able in a weekend.
https://goo.gl/images/SPH6xK
these could be interesting the first is cooler but looks heavy. I do have a little trailer that i could tow. if i were to make it work like that itd be hard on the motor maybe a single port would do it. I want a single port stroker for good low end power. maybe i should just go subaru but thats way to much work and im way busy. The dirtbike is a sort of enduro its got head and tailights maybe ill try to get it street legal.
or i could just throw it in the back of a friends truck give him some gas money and flat tow the bug behind it. ive got one of the flat tow bars.
My friend is really trying to get me to go irs. Hes got a jig and arms. Gotta get the rest but thats not yet. DO you guys think a cage is do able in a weekend.
Travis
I spend way to much time on this site
I spend way to much time on this site
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: 68 baja build
IT 175 was a cool bike raced in the desert in its day. AMA rules were for 500cc class, 250cc class, and 175cc and smaller class. Watching recent desert races, I've not even seen a small bore class mentioned other than kids classes. Just 250 and 500. Note that 450 4 strokes bikes race in the same class as 250 2 strokes. But an IT was NEVER intended to be street legal. I doubt seriously that DMV would grant you street registration for one. You would for one thing need to add a voltage regulator and a battery. Then you'd need to replace the lights with DOT approved highway lights, including turn indicators, and circuitry to turn on the lights whenever the engine is running. Then add mirrors, an ignition lock, etc.
4+ decades ago, I used to tow a little motorcycle trailer with my Baja Bug with my 1st bike (1970 Ossa Stiletto 250)
out to the desert. The Baja seemed to think it was towing a Buick. It DID NOT LIKE it. The 1835 was a bit pipey for it. So I bought a pickup to haul the bike and tow the Baja, and later the Hi Jumper buggy on its own trailer.
4+ decades ago, I used to tow a little motorcycle trailer with my Baja Bug with my 1st bike (1970 Ossa Stiletto 250)
out to the desert. The Baja seemed to think it was towing a Buick. It DID NOT LIKE it. The 1835 was a bit pipey for it. So I bought a pickup to haul the bike and tow the Baja, and later the Hi Jumper buggy on its own trailer.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: 68 baja build
For someone who builds Baja cages all the time, it would MAYBE be possible to install a basic cage in a Baja, no shock mounts, front structure, etc. You could definitely install an EMPI cage in a weekend. A Class 11 cage if you did not weld around the tops of the upper joints...And THAT is NOT acceptable.
If you convert to IRS, what rear shock mounts would you use? If you want to throw on those 10" Foxes or Bilsteins you've been talking about...A month of spare time is probably not enough.
YES...eventually go IRS. But you need to take things step by step. Other folks can get you diving off into the deep blue sea with no life raft.
If you convert to IRS, what rear shock mounts would you use? If you want to throw on those 10" Foxes or Bilsteins you've been talking about...A month of spare time is probably not enough.
YES...eventually go IRS. But you need to take things step by step. Other folks can get you diving off into the deep blue sea with no life raft.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
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- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: 68 baja build
I think you are trying to do a lot in a short time and not getting to enjoy your Baja other than working and planning what to do. This is a sure way to get bored with it and eventually burn out. Be careful Travis.
- CentralWAbaja
- Posts: 4278
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:05 pm
Re: 68 baja build
Travis you can hammer the living daylights out of a swing axle car. And honestly there are guys here that have seen some of the best do it. Nothing more impressive then a guy that hangs with the big boys in a SA car.
It is not Mickey Moused.....It's Desert Engineered!
- bikesndbugs
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 am
Re: 68 baja build
Yeah im quite overwhelmed. Just alot that needs to be done with the extended shock mount arms and then my unstraight panhead and all that. just cant really go offroad now. i like the swing axle and have no issue with it. my current delema is just the front end. and ill be around 10 inch travel and im worried about the 60 90 travel rule lee mentions alot. Just alot going on.
Im also getting a xt125 for free so together i should have a nice bike.
Im also getting a xt125 for free so together i should have a nice bike.
Travis
I spend way to much time on this site
I spend way to much time on this site
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: 68 baja build
You have no need to worry about that wheel travel ratio rule of thumb with what you're building.
I raced my Hi Jumper with swingaxle rear limited to 8" of travel and 10" travel on the link pin front and won a championship that way. Long time ago, but the car is still that way and it still surprises people how well the car works. Without the big shocks the Class 9 guys use on swing axles now. (well...up until the last time the engine case broke and caused it to get set on the back burner for a while).
My friends, Richard, Matt and Madison Dormack raced an old swing axle Baja Bug for a while in MORE Sportsman Class 13. They wound up putting a wider beam on it and longer front arms. They won a couple or 3 Championships in that class before they traded up to a Class 5-Open car. Had a lot of fun with it racing on a very low budget funded by recycling. Matt and Madison have taken that experience and turned it into careers in the offroad industry. Matt builds and preps at ES Motorsports doing Class 1 cars, pro rally cars, and more. Madison works at Icon Shocks and has worked at K&N too.
So you too can have a nice working Baja with 10" travel beam and 8" travel swing axle rear. You can mount those big shocks to the swingaxle and put upper mounts on the cage you're talking about and keep the swing axle for a while too.
Class 9 buggies with ball joint front and swingaxle rear compete very close in time to 5-16 Bajas with 9-10" travel link pin front and long travel (15-17") IRS rear.
So put some spring plate keeper straps and add about 1/4" droop travel limiters on the rears and you will be OK there. Both are covered in Baja Bugs & Buggies. It helps keep the rear camber in control to keep the rubber side down. I used Key stock (for preventing rotation of pulleys and such on shafts) of 1/4" thick x (IIRC) 1/2" wide. You can weld it to the torsion housing end forging droop stop, or to the spring plate keeper strap.
I raced my Hi Jumper with swingaxle rear limited to 8" of travel and 10" travel on the link pin front and won a championship that way. Long time ago, but the car is still that way and it still surprises people how well the car works. Without the big shocks the Class 9 guys use on swing axles now. (well...up until the last time the engine case broke and caused it to get set on the back burner for a while).
My friends, Richard, Matt and Madison Dormack raced an old swing axle Baja Bug for a while in MORE Sportsman Class 13. They wound up putting a wider beam on it and longer front arms. They won a couple or 3 Championships in that class before they traded up to a Class 5-Open car. Had a lot of fun with it racing on a very low budget funded by recycling. Matt and Madison have taken that experience and turned it into careers in the offroad industry. Matt builds and preps at ES Motorsports doing Class 1 cars, pro rally cars, and more. Madison works at Icon Shocks and has worked at K&N too.
So you too can have a nice working Baja with 10" travel beam and 8" travel swing axle rear. You can mount those big shocks to the swingaxle and put upper mounts on the cage you're talking about and keep the swing axle for a while too.
Class 9 buggies with ball joint front and swingaxle rear compete very close in time to 5-16 Bajas with 9-10" travel link pin front and long travel (15-17") IRS rear.
So put some spring plate keeper straps and add about 1/4" droop travel limiters on the rears and you will be OK there. Both are covered in Baja Bugs & Buggies. It helps keep the rear camber in control to keep the rubber side down. I used Key stock (for preventing rotation of pulleys and such on shafts) of 1/4" thick x (IIRC) 1/2" wide. You can weld it to the torsion housing end forging droop stop, or to the spring plate keeper strap.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
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Re: 68 baja build
Travis, I am sure Dusty knows more about it than I do so I would go with he said. What I told you is something that is constant advice given to where I ride. The suspension travel ratio I gave you does make sense to me but Dusty has actual experience so, again, I would go with his advice.
Lee
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.
- bikesndbugs
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 am
Re: 68 baja build
very helpful. Im thinking the foxes in front and the bilstiens in rear. ive been meaning to make some of those keeper straps. looks like im keeping swing for now.
In other news I have good news. Had a buddy call me today with a possible job offer. Ive gotta go into a shop and they wanna see what i can do as far as welding tubing and such especially in weird positions. so gotta practice that as much as i can. Tomorrow in class that will be all i do. Also have to learn to notch with a chop saw. but this is a possible tig welding job on racecars.
In other news I have good news. Had a buddy call me today with a possible job offer. Ive gotta go into a shop and they wanna see what i can do as far as welding tubing and such especially in weird positions. so gotta practice that as much as i can. Tomorrow in class that will be all i do. Also have to learn to notch with a chop saw. but this is a possible tig welding job on racecars.
Travis
I spend way to much time on this site
I spend way to much time on this site
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- Posts: 17732
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: 68 baja build
Congrats on the possible job.
From what you describe (the "weird positions") sounds like a certified welding license requirements we used to require. If you can get that welding certification you are can go to the head of the class in my opinion.
From what you describe (the "weird positions") sounds like a certified welding license requirements we used to require. If you can get that welding certification you are can go to the head of the class in my opinion.
- bikesndbugs
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 am
Re: 68 baja build
Not necessarily a cert i just need to be able to work standing, kneeling and or laying down while using a tig pedal.Ol'fogasaurus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:53 pm Congrats on the possible job.
From what you describe (the "weird positions") sounds like a certified welding license requirements we used to require. If you can get that welding certification you are can go to the head of the class in my opinion.
and be good a tubing angles and notching.
Travis
I spend way to much time on this site
I spend way to much time on this site
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: 68 baja build
Fishmouths with a chop saw is something of an art. Some fabricators are great at it, some are terrible, I can do OK sometimes. I prefer not to most of the time, But sometimes, I see it as the best way. Rick Crumb of Crumco is particularly good at it and it's the only way he works. Visualizing the fit is the key.
The proper term for welding in such odd positions is "Out Of Position" welding. It's often necessary in building race cars.Try on your back, head down under the steering wheel to rebuild/repair the pedal mounts in a tube frame Corvette Trans Am road racer that's going to race tomorrow morning. Can be a real PITA sometimes. But sometimes, it's the only way to get the job done.
The proper term for welding in such odd positions is "Out Of Position" welding. It's often necessary in building race cars.Try on your back, head down under the steering wheel to rebuild/repair the pedal mounts in a tube frame Corvette Trans Am road racer that's going to race tomorrow morning. Can be a real PITA sometimes. But sometimes, it's the only way to get the job done.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22518
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: 68 baja build
Pedal?bikesndbugs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:21 pmNot necessarily a cert i just need to be able to work standing, kneeling and or laying down while using a tig pedal.Ol'fogasaurus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:53 pm Congrats on the possible job.
From what you describe (the "weird positions") sounds like a certified welding license requirements we used to require. If you can get that welding certification you are can go to the head of the class in my opinion.
and be good a tubing angles and notching.
Most production out of position work is done with programmed ramp up/down and preset current, no pedal.
(4T trigger, tap to start and tap to stop, ramp up and ramp down time is generally adjustable, depends on the welder)
If you want the ultimate in control though...
There's a MUCH better way to do it and you can build it yourself for ~$25, including cable and connector.
This works ~infinitely better that any of the commercially available amptrols I have tried (tried most of them).
I will never own a pedal for either of my TIG setups after developing these...
These are far easier to make and work far better than your would ever believe, and work anywhere you can get a finger or thumb on the trigger.(It doesn't have to even be on the torch, but the eye/thumb feedback loop is pretty fast)
Start at the beginning of the thread for some other ideas.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?79 ... nfig-ideas
I'm waferhead there as they didn't like my std username...
I have one on my 181i and one on my synchro 250.
I have considered adding one to my MIG gun trigger for wire speed or voltage adjustment but have been too lazy...
Want more? squeeze a little harder. Very low effort.
The pics (as they are) are on page 3 as the first set got eaten and you can't edit old posts there.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- bikesndbugs
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 am
Re: 68 baja build
good info ill read up on it when i have spare time. im gonna try to get myself in some weird spots today in class and ive got some tubing so ill practice with that
Travis
I spend way to much time on this site
I spend way to much time on this site