Intercooler efficiency

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Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:37 pm

panel wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:11 pm
Amurray wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:04 am
My air to air intercooler range between 67 and 71% efficiency at idle.
Just curious how you came up with this ?
Reading from Garrett but I could be wrong that's why I asked the question... Im pretty sure someone has more knowledge about it than I do.

Garrett:
"Q. What is intercooler effectiveness and how do I measure it?
A. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. Example: If the turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 140° F, but after passing through the intercooler the air is 115° cooler (resulting in a 25° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 115/140 = 0.82 or 82% efficiency Typically, air-to-air intercoolers for normal street applications range between 60% and 70% efficiency. Often, liquid-to-air intercoolers have effectiveness ratings from 75% to 95%. One common method of improving the cooling of the charge air dramatically in an air-to-water intercooler is the inclusion of ice as a coolant."


What I did see was the temps out the turbo was 168° and out the intercooler was 124° before entering the engine on the dyno. I'm going back to the Dyno soon with a better clutch....this time it will be recorded. But I will be using the CO2 with the fans.
Last edited by Amurray on Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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petew
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by petew » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:05 pm

Amurray wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:47 pm
Trust me my set up works and works quite well. I'm glad I did not listen to the nay sayers on this and other forums. I like to think outside the box. I never wanted to use a water to air intercooler. The fans under my intercooler is like a hurricane and I'm spraying CO2 when I will be at the track.
Been thinking about your system a bit. I'm pleased to hear you're satisfied with it. Just seems to me a lot of effort to get it to work. Two enormous fans. CO2 refills. Those fans would be a pretty big drag on your electrical system. Admittedly, my car needs a pump to push the coolant down to the radiator, but I'd be surprised if it's as parasitic as the fans. And my intercooler is about as efficient as yours. Between 15-20degC above ambient after the intercooler.

And why are you running the fans from 1400rpm? My pump comes on based on throttle 70% position or 100kpa of manifold pressure.

Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:56 pm

petew wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:05 pm
Amurray wrote: Just seems to me a lot of effort to get it to work.[/highlight] Two enormous fans. CO2 refills. Those fans would be a pretty big drag on your electrical system. Admittedly, my car needs a pump to push the coolant down to the radiator, but I'd be surprised if it's as parasitic as the fans. And my intercooler is about as efficient as yours. Between 15-20degC above ambient after the intercooler.

And why are you running the fans from 1400rpm? My pump comes on based on throttle 70% position or 100kpa of manifold pressure.
It's no different than you using water to cool your intercooler and the pump forcing water through the core and you need a radiator. That seems like alot of effort to make it all work :wink: How are you getting air to pass the radiator? My ECU can controls the Fan anyway I like I program it. At the moment its RPM based.

My electrical system is fine the system sits around 12.5 volts with everything on. That's 2 11" Spal fans for the intercooler, 2 Spal fans for the oil cooler, HID headlights, LED tail lights and a host of electronic gauges. I chose the intercooler fans to come on at 1200 RPM because I don't want the intercooler to heat soak at any time. The intercooler is enclosed & the fans are shrouded. When the fans are on it will suck paper through the ducting like a vacuum cleaner. You can feel the air being sucked in. When I spray the CO2 you can see the entire intercooler box ice up. When I go back to the dyno I'm going the add some dry ice pellets on the top of the intercooler to see what that does. It should work quite well. It would be nice to get the temperatures back down to ambient while in hi boost. I KNOW WISHFUL THINKING 😁

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panel
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by panel » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:25 pm

So you have a pre and post IAT sensor that you can toggle in between ?
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Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:30 pm

panel wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:25 pm
So you have a pre and post IAT sensor that you can toggle in between ?
Yes... Pre...Post...and Diff

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panel
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by panel » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 pm

^ I'd like to do that also. :)

I guess you'd have to turn off the O2 feedback when in pre intercooling (pre IAT location) ? Or you'd be tuning for different temps etc and messing everything up from your tune.

What ECU do you have that allows this or is it 2 gauges with two separate systems ?
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Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:39 pm

panel wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 pm
^ I'd like to do that also. :)

I guess you'd have to turn off the O2 feedback when in pre intercooling (pre IAT location) ? Or you'd be tuning for different temps etc and messing everything up from your tune.

What ECU do you have that allows this or is it 2 gauges with two separate systems ?
This is a standalone unit not control by my ECU. I only use it to see my air temperatures before going into the throttle body.

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Chip Birks
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:35 pm

panel wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 pm
^ I'd like to do that also. :)

I guess you'd have to turn off the O2 feedback when in pre intercooling (pre IAT location) ? Or you'd be tuning for different temps etc and messing everything up from your tune.

What ECU do you have that allows this or is it 2 gauges with two separate systems ?
Panel, I'm doing this with my ms3. I have a sensor pre intercooler, post intercooler and then my final one is post water/meth(I use this as my IAT). The first 2 are just data streams for logging purposes.

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panel
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by panel » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:06 pm

I wonder if my MS2 would do it?

Can you use the open cage IAT sensor with water/meth ?
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Clonebug » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:51 pm

panel wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:06 pm
I wonder if my MS2 would do it?

Can you use the open cage IAT sensor with water/meth ?
I do and it works fine.........
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Chip Birks
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:40 pm

not sure if you have the available analog inputs available Panel. I have an IOX box that gives me a ton of flexibility with that kind of stuff.

Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Well I was playing around with the car again.....got bored😊 Anyway I had my car idling for a few minutes then I decided to test out dry ice on my intercooler. The ambient temps out side was 83°....the temperature out of the turbo was 125°.....the fans were on @ idle. I added dry ice pellets to the intercooler then the temps after the intercooler was 62° going into the engine. That took out 63° of temps. Of course that change my AFRs😁.YES I know this means nothing sitting at idle but I Can Only Imagine what this effect will be when I'm on the dyno again at full Boost 29psi. I know what the fans does on the dyno. Oh I finally have in my possession the RLR REV6 clutch/flywheel.😲 A work of art......thanks RON. This should hold the power without me beating the crap out of my engine. Now we about to find out what this🤬car will do in terms of power.

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risk
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by risk » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:38 pm

Why not just go water to air? Then you could pack the tank with ice/dry ice and everything is sealed up.

My water to air intercooler setup is around 73% efficient.. probably would be better if I insulated the cooler and the return (cold) piping.

The new dodge demon uses the AC Freon to cool the charge. I'd love to see that adapted to one of our vws!

Amurray
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by Amurray » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:57 pm

Because I didn't want to use the extra things involved. There's practically no maintenance and I don't have to worry about water lines, radiator, water or pump. I only want to use dry ice at the track. Otherwise the fans does quite well.

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risk
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Re: Intercooler efficiency

Post by risk » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:17 pm

How are you applying the dry ice to the intercooler? some sort of wire mesh rack?

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