Chip's Turbo EFI Build

[MarioVelotta]

And thanks for the push to work on mine. I'll be replacing my ECU shortly so I can be one of the cool kids again

1487438_10206965611600817_1120712787054579983_n.jpg

[Chip Birks]

Thanks guys!
As far as the pressure is concerned, I really wonder if it is voltage based. I have a tired Wal-Mart special battery, and a known to be weak stock bosch alternator. If you look at the data log I sent you, watch the voltage get lower and lower as I drive. Throttle input has an obvious effect on it too. Volts drop when I apply throttle.
The flex sensor is brand new and no longer on the pressure side, and it is a straight through pipe with a little dangly thing inside. Might be time for a real battery and alternator. Honestly looking into porsche cooling just because you can get a big amp alternator in that package that isn't a total piece of garbage. Too bad the cooling sucks so bad.
Looking good Mario, keep it up!

[ToRy 70]

I had all kinds of fuel pressure issues with my setup and they drove me crazy. I too am starting over with my fuel system, because I started adding all sorts of stuff that I now feel were band-aids to the root problem. I am fairly confident that I can trace my wonky pump pressures to poor wiring and localized grounds- this time I am going to bus-bar EVERYTHING in the car and run it right back to the battery/trans.

Any good alternator shop should be able to rewind your core to add amperage- I had mine rewound to put out 100 amps when I was trying to trace stuff a few years ago. I added one of those Mexican fan pulleys to see if it helped keep it cooler.

[Piledriver]

With MS3, once you have the basic fuel system sorted, you can also PWM the fuel pump based on pressure.
(should have plenty of headroom if you went with the Walbro E85 Godzilla pump we discussed at one point)
You can actually regulate pressure based on a programmed curve.(with perhaps a safety popoff>return.)

Haven't had a lick of trouble out of that 044.
(using it with a feeder/sump as it was designed)

The Walbro is a gerotor so should be far more forgiving, but it will still want a big fat line off the bottom of the tank.

[Chip Birks]

Thanks for the input guys!
I may be changing to porsche cooling in the near future. Bigger fan, 110amp gm alternator, potentially better cooling. I think it will help with a few things.

I've looked into the PWMing the pump a little and it's still on the table. Need to figure out the ss relay stuff first though. Seems to be some confusion on the forums about it. I have the Walbro Bugatti style 330lph pump inside the tank, you don't get a better fuel source than that IMHO.

[ToRy 70]

Good to hear that the monster 044 is serving you well! That furthers my certainty that the root problems were not contained to the pump itself.

What are the advantages to using MS to control the pump pressure, over a simple rising rate FPR? Are there any concerns for the longevity of the pump?

I'm still on MS1 v2.2 with EDIS. Even if I wasn't, it seems like pump PWM is for fine-tuning control, not getting around delivery problems. I figure if I can't make this rock-stupid setup work, I don't deserve to buy more toys. There are draw-thru, locked-out guys driving way more than I am.

[Chip Birks]

The ability to have the ecu control the actual pressure of the pump based on sensor feedback regardless of voltage is the benefit. This would help me a ton. If the ecu senses that pressure is dropping, it'll just up the duty cycle to get it back in place. I think it is also possible to setup an expected pressure delta based on MAP for boosted cars. I already have the pressure sensor, so I can log fuel pressure, going pwm really isn't a big deal at this point. Add a relay, and run a couple wires.

[Piledriver]

If you have doubts about any of the off-the-shelf SSR setups you could build a nice one cheap and easy using a "similar" design to the MS injector or ignition drivers, just paired up, and using std cheap parts.
(you can parallel MOSFETS, anyway, think it would likely work for the ignition drivers as well)

You don't want to copy the designs of B&G of course, they get grumpy.
OTOH almost identical circuit designs are in the app notes for the devices.
Just don't copy the layout.

ToRy, if you ever want to go MS2/sequential, we have an "easy button" now.
...connects to an MS3X for I/O, and will work on any mainboard, even in a MS1 case.
(you have to make new end caps, need to post the patterns, scanner is giving me grief on the old HP all-in-one)

You can also go sequential fuel and waste spark etc (not sure about EDIS)

I tried getting my head around MS1/edis. MS2e/MS3 are trivial to set up by comparison.
(esp with the distributor-based single wheel/single sensor setup, you turn the can until the timing matches the setpoint, almost like old skool.)

[Chip Birks]

I have spare injector outputs. Do I use that to drive a ss relay? I'll need to do some looking on msextra to see what folks are doing.

[Piledriver]

I figured you'd be running staged injectors for E85...
(That's the main reason I went to MS3)

I'm not sure what outputs are usable for fuel pressure PWM, but all legal outputs should be in the pulldown list in TS settings for the feature.

It would probably need a pullup resistor to run a SSR, easily doable at the SSR.

[Steve Arndt]

Chip there is a CSP 911 cooling setup on the samba for sale. I tried to facebook it to you but you left. He posted it on the vw drag classified group a few days ago.

[Chip Birks]

No staged injectors for me. Just really big singles ID1000's...for now. Worst case, I build a circuit for the iox and run it from that.
I saw a circuit that can be used to data log volts at the fuel pump, I'll be building that asap to see if that really is a problem.

Steve, thanks for the info. Eric Allred actually forwarded that over to me last night. While the price is right, I think I may go with the BB setup, mainly because everything is new. No used Porsche parts involved. I'm getting tired of piecing together stuff to save a buck. Gonna try a few more things before I drop the cash, since the car used to run cool and now all of a sudden does not. New heads and cam really shouldn't change things that much. Heads are the same castings even, just hand ported.

[Steve Arndt]

Plus that way you can brag about having an all BergMann motor :p

[Chip Birks]

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/jeffreys/vw/fr_top.html
I would love to find the oil cooler kit these guys build for the porsche style cooling, looks like they use a Bergman kit.
The BERG(cough)man name definitely inspires confidence when people hear it. Just looked at a new csp kit, they only have a 65A alternator. Almost as bad as my stocker!

[Steve Arndt]

Stocker AL82N only put out mid 13 volts and max of 50 amps. It would die a quick death running high duty cycle. I am going to put an adjustable voltage regulator in mine to adjust it up. John C. and I have done that to our vanagon alternators and it really helps things out.

I have a Power Tuning Parts 964 911 setup for my T4 build. It is the one that Bergmann copied 15 years ago.

I say go for it. You should be able to get some decent coin out of your custom holy shroud and the ducting that goes with it.