Chip's Turbo EFI Build

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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Piledriver
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:54 pm

The CSP kit has the upside of using an off the shelf OEM alternator.
The downside is that it is a real Porsche part, so insane prices apply.

IIRC the Bergman (spits) setup uses an adapted Mk1 Golf alternator that may or may not be actually up to the task of supporting a large heavy fan at high rpm over the long term.
(perhaps Steve could say if that's a real concern)

We have had discussions about designing a mount setup for (example) a std GM alt (same shaft/stud size, but with dual ball bearings on each end) available in very high amps, smallest C130D is IIRC 95A, and newer GM alts are designed even better.

...Unfortunately that has always been about where the conversations stop, just after "that's a great idea".

I'm looking for a new place with a large shop with a small living area attached, so I may be able to really do stuff shortly, but someone needs to post up specs/drawings or basically get the ball rolling.

FJCamper is working a fan housing insert for the centermount setups that may be a low cost and decent performance alternative, but you are then stuck with a high amp rewound T1 alternator--- Unless you make a new mount/fan drive setup allowing alternative alternators for T1s, which would probably be a very good project by itself.
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Chip Birks
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:19 pm

Bergman now uses a 110A GM alternator. He does some machine work on every one through, so it's not actually an off the shelf unit anymore. Definitely not a VW part. This to me is half the draw.

As far as my holy shroud is concerned, I don't think much will have to change with my intake when using the 911 style cooling. Obviously the TB will have to move a little bit, but everything else should work just fine.

I'm not sold on this yet. I just really don't want to have to spend a ton of coin on an aftermarket big AMP vw style alternator, to have it go bad shortly thereafter. Already bought a 75amp that lasted one 9 mile drive before it was only making 12v, and squealed like the bearings were shot. Belt wasn't too tight either. Pretty much just tired of the poor quality aftermarket vw garbage that seems to be available right now, especially electronics.

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:28 pm


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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:32 pm

The good news is that given std GM guts (mostly) the replaceable parts are ~all cheap if you ever have to rebuild it.
You aren't likely to break an armature often.

Bernie seems to have made significant forward progress....
... did Oklahoma kick him out too :twisted: ?

The price seems reasonable.
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by MarioVelotta » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:39 pm

That is bad ass. I WANT!
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2276 Turbo - 92 Octane
11.537 @ 115.74mph - 15psi
1600 S.C. - 92 Octane
15.47 @ 83mph - 13psi
1600 NA ITB - 18sec :lol:
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Piledriver » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:42 pm

MarioVelotta wrote:That is bad ass. I WANT!
You may later wish to Curb Your Enthusiasm.

It would be awsome if somebody, (almost) anybody, other than Bernie Bergman (or perhaps Jakes old "buddy" Steve(?) whatshisname) was making these and selling them at these prices.

IF Pat Downs (CB Performance) was making them they'd probably cost a bit more.
OTOH, ~anyone remotely familiar with Bernies history would gladly pay more not to do business with him.

It's possible Bernie discovered how to be an ethical businessman in Oklahoma, and I hope he turned the corner.

BUT:
He was in Oklahoma because California revoked his business licence, supposedly permanently. for cause.
I guess a permanent ban expires in California...

I'd merrily buy one of those systems used, but dealing with Bernie you apparently have to count your money, fingers, toes and manparts afterwards. :twisted:
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Chip Birks
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:25 pm

A little update...
As far as fuel pressure is concerned, it's very steady...and always has been. Apparently the MS devs designed the fuel pressure loggable gauges and such to show a differential. Since my system was only boost referenced and not vacuum reff'd it really screwed with the pressure reading that the ms was translating. If I looked at the raw sensor data though, the pressure held very steady. Talk about a very expensive learning curve on that one! Oh well, the fuel system kicks butt now, and it's quiet so I can't really complain.

I also got the thing to run much cooler. Between a little more driving and a fresh change of Mobile 1 0-40w with a qt of Hyper-lube(AutoZone). I managed to drop oil temps from a still rising but maybe software limited 251.6F to a much more friendly 212F. Only about 5° different in ambient as well. This was cruising at 70mph on the freeway, 3400ish rpm for about 30 miles. I need to get my head temp stuff put back on so I can see what is happening there, but yesterday the engine did not act or feel hot after my little trip.

I also finally managed to get the boost to start climbing again. Been pretty scared of hurting it this go around and have been taking it pretty easy on it for the last month or so. I have had the boost at about 8-9 psi this little while. Well last night I finally saw almost 16psi and 7500rpm. I gotta say, I sure love driving a turbo car. Nice to hear a solid psssst out of the BOV when releasing the throttle. 8 psi just kinda burbles out when shifting, but big boost sounds good :mrgreen:

I'm thinking it's time to pull the helmet out of the mothballs...

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Piledriver » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:46 am

Turn on "Air-cooled expanded CLT range" option...
Basic/load settings>guage and settings limits, at bottom.

WUE does not "turn off", I add massive fuel at high CLT like when idling in traffic.
(just have a range where it is 100% where it typically runs)
Same for "cold advance" Bit of a misnomer, it works at all temps, and is +/- 10 degrees of timing.
Delete the WUE "idiot light" if it annoys you.
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:26 am

Oil temp is not my clt. I use one of Mario's sensors on the head tin screw for the clt. My oil temp is coming from the type 3 dipstick block off plate, and is connected to the iox as a generic sensor, using the gm calibration on the generic sensors page. Maybe I should calibrate it as "same as CLT" for the extended range.

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Piledriver » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Might work.
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Well, it's about time to park the bug for the winter. I managed to get some pretty decent use out of it this summer, which is nice after the wiring disaster that I dealt with last year. The car performed pretty good all summer, aside from breaking the clutch tube out of the tunnel at the front and rear. The down time caused by this allowed me to finish up the fab work for the much desired muffler setup on the car. I'm happy to say that the car is very quiet compared to the old race muffler arrangement. It's easily as quiet as any other magnaflow equipped bug, but doesn't have the big old fat boy hanging behind the apron.

Image

I managed to get to the race track twice this summer, it has been 3 years since the car was last on the drag strip, so it was definitely a long time coming. I had pretty poor luck the first night out. The car was doing too good of a job of protecting itself by using the AFR safety system to shut itself down every pass. I ended with a best of 12.9X on a low boost(14psi) pass with out pulling through 3rd or 4th due to the afr safety kicking in. Waste of a night, but good enough to get a lot of the jitters out of my system. I did have the boost line come off of the wastegate that night on the track and saw recorded boost of 27psi in 3rd on my 4th pass :shock: Thank goodness for e85! No damage!

Night number two was a week ago today. That was a much more fun experience than the previous local race. I hauled the car down to Las Vegas to participate in the Unlimited Street West race class. This involes going on a 20 mile-ish cruise in the car the night before the event. We had 12 cars show up, two of them have gone 9s, but the majority of us were high 10 or 11 second cars. It was a pretty fun drive. I think I had the only car with a back seat, so my car got loaded with 3 grown men(Me, my Dad, and Shag Leone), and we went cruising. It was a lot of fun. We did one short freeway on ramp pull through 2nd and 3rd gear. Even though that car had probably 350 more lbs than normal in it that night it pulled like a freight train. Data log showed 23psi even though it only had a 14psi spring in the gate :? Yay for E85...again :roll: Unfortunately as I thought 3rd was peaking and lifted off the throttle we hear a very loud blow off valve sound. I didn't think much of it till I noticed that the car no longer had that nice turbo puuuulllllll anymore. I realized then that there was a problem. AFRs looked good and the engine was still running fine, so we cruised on, hoping that I hadn't just grenaded the turbo. Luckily we made it though the cruise, and found my main pressure pipe going to the throttle body after the turbo had come uncoupled. Easy fix! Also found that the boost line to the waste gate had come off again(different end than last time). Another easy fix and explained the out of control boost that the car had.

Race day was lots of fun. While getting the car ready to hit the track Mario came over and said howdy, and then hung out with us for a good chunck of the event. He was able to provide some solid input between passes to help get the tune dialed in, not to mention provide some helping hands to my dad and I while we were thrashing between rounds to keep my car wiped down and together. A big thanks to Mario for his help and friendship! I also have to give props to Shag@SL1 racing for his help. This car has aquired more and more SL1 racing parts over the last couple of years. Initially just a cam, then a turbo, then another turbo and cam and now a 3rd cam, and a set of heads to match. All awesome stuff! Thank you! The car drives great, and is pretty dang quick when I ask it to be. First pass off the trailer it went 11.44@119.98 mph, it was pig rich and stumbling at the top end. That was a personal best by almost half a second. To say I am pleased is an understatement! The 60ft was weak, since I was trying to preserve the transmission for the first qualifier. I left the line at 5500rpm. It hooked hard with no bog and laid down a solid number, with plenty of room to improve. Unfortunately do to other unforseen issues, I never actually bettered the time, getting eliminated 1st round after my throttle cable disconnected from my throttle body. The car was on kill that pass, 26.5 psi(controlled this time), but only made it through 1st and part of 2nd gear(bouncing off the 7500rpm rev and 270kpa boost limiters) before it unhooked. Oh well. I let it cool for a couple hours while I hung out and watched some racing, then reconnected it, and drove it onto the trailer. I drove it to work all week, and as of last night it is parked in the garage, ready to hibernate though our Utah winter. Can't complain about a mid 11 second daily driver, nope not one bit. I didn't get my 10 this year, but I don't think its far off now. Sorry for the long post. Lots to catch up on!

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Clonebug » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:12 pm

Very Nice Chip!!!!

Those sure don't look like street tires in the back..... :? 8) :lol:
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:32 pm

Those used to be street tires! 60mph burn outs up freeway on-ramps and 3 years of driving with a spool has taken its tole. It got a fresh set on it before Vegas. I do race on M&H slicks though.
Vegas burnout.jpg
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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by madmike » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:01 am

Good times!! and Shag & Mario to help You,, 8) 8) 10's are in the future :wink:

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Re: Chip's Turbo EFI Build

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:39 am

Oh yeah, had the opportunity to put the car on the scales after every pass. Started out at 1995lbs with me in it. I weigh about 165. The car lost 5lbs every pass. It was probably a gallon or two low by the time I got it on the scales. So it's pretty safe to assume it is a solid 2000lb package. This car is a tank.

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