T4 - Blow Through Turbo - VW Splitscreen
- blue thunder
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:55 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
TD04 is indeed the 'frame'size (cartridge size). An L indicates a slightly wider inducer tip height of the turbinewheel (more flow) and an H indicates a slightly larger diameter turbine wheel compared to the standard wheel.
So a TD04L and a TD04H turbo will flow more compared to a TD04 (and a TD04HL even more). Furthermore MHI uses square cm instead of A/R ratio like some other popular brands. The '13T' or '16G' or '19T' etc are an indication of the used compressorwheel and its thermodynamic properties.
Cheers,
Robin
So a TD04L and a TD04H turbo will flow more compared to a TD04 (and a TD04HL even more). Furthermore MHI uses square cm instead of A/R ratio like some other popular brands. The '13T' or '16G' or '19T' etc are an indication of the used compressorwheel and its thermodynamic properties.
Cheers,
Robin
- Udo Airbus
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:22 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Thanks all for the info and reply's.
For now I use stock pistons
I first want to know If I get everything working....
I mounted the engine in the bus to make an exhaust.. I will use an external waste gate since I have limited space.. and it's easier for upgrades.
Making an exhaust is very difficult since the bus is very low.. and I do not want to damage the turbo on speed bumps. And yes the tow bar is also taking space..
Can anybody advice me what injector size I can use? 94x96 mm.. 42mm itb's 200+ hp?
Thanks.
For now I use stock pistons
I first want to know If I get everything working....
I mounted the engine in the bus to make an exhaust.. I will use an external waste gate since I have limited space.. and it's easier for upgrades.
Making an exhaust is very difficult since the bus is very low.. and I do not want to damage the turbo on speed bumps. And yes the tow bar is also taking space..
Can anybody advice me what injector size I can use? 94x96 mm.. 42mm itb's 200+ hp?
Thanks.
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VW T1 1964 - Mouse Grey - Pearl White OG paint
Bagged, Porsche steeringrack/brakes..IRS, 1915cc
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- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
200hp only needs about a 350-400cc (~35-40 lbs) cc/min injector, but I would not risk a too small injector as leaning out is one of the most dangerous things to encounter.Udo Airbus wrote:
Can anybody advice me what injector size I can use? 94x96 mm.. 42mm itb's 200+ hp?
Thanks.
There is hardly any cons on too big of an injector (I runs 1000cc's), so I would just get some Siemens 63lbs or 600-650cc injectors and be done with it. Safe up to 350-ish hp (on an aircooled engine)
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
- kangaboy
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
While reading the MSExtra manuals, they stated that too big of an injector would give you some issues with idle and running smoother on the lower end, IIRC. I only bring this up because i have something like 380cc (36 lbs) injectors, and the quick calculator that is also located in the MSExtra manual says these will be a liiiiitle too big for my 1776T project.Wally wrote:200hp only needs about a 350-400cc (~35-40 lbs) cc/min injector, but I would not risk a too small injector as leaning out is one of the most dangerous things to encounter.Udo Airbus wrote:
Can anybody advice me what injector size I can use? 94x96 mm.. 42mm itb's 200+ hp?
Thanks.
There is hardly any cons on too big of an injector (I runs 1000cc's), so I would just get some Siemens 63lbs or 600-650cc injectors and be done with it. Safe up to 350-ish hp (on an aircooled engine)
But with what you stated, that there are hardly any cons of too big of injectors, I should be fine, right?
-
- Posts: 4719
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
I have run 32lb. injectors for two years on my 1679 without issues and am bumping up to 45 lbs injector within the week.kangaboy wrote:While reading the MSExtra manuals, they stated that too big of an injector would give you some issues with idle and running smoother on the lower end, IIRC. I only bring this up because i have something like 380cc (36 lbs) injectors, and the quick calculator that is also located in the MSExtra manual says these will be a liiiiitle too big for my 1776T project.Wally wrote:200hp only needs about a 350-400cc (~35-40 lbs) cc/min injector, but I would not risk a too small injector as leaning out is one of the most dangerous things to encounter.Udo Airbus wrote:
Can anybody advice me what injector size I can use? 94x96 mm.. 42mm itb's 200+ hp?
Thanks.
There is hardly any cons on too big of an injector (I runs 1000cc's), so I would just get some Siemens 63lbs or 600-650cc injectors and be done with it. Safe up to 350-ish hp (on an aircooled engine)
But with what you stated, that there are hardly any cons of too big of injectors, I should be fine, right?
32 lb injectors are good for 230 hp. at 100% DC.
I was hitting 94.5% DC on a couple runs.
It's better to have them a little on the large size than too small and chance running lean if you are turboed.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
- Volky
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
I have a 1776cc which was N/A with 19lb. Injectors. Three years later I put a turbo in it and bought 48lb. Injectors, a goooood deal I couldn't pass brand new. it idles great.
My injectors are bigger than I wanted but better safe than sorry.
My injectors are bigger than I wanted but better safe than sorry.
1970 VW Beetle with 2109cc turbo with MS-II v3.0, wasted spark, electronic boost controller, dual table, launch control and 3.88 tranny. All done by me... t03 running 48lb. Injectors, Intercooler, Water/Meth injection at 15psi.
-
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
I know this isn't air cooled, but I have 38lb injectors on my N/A ford 2.3. I haven't had a problem with idle, I just have some small numbers in the idle area on my VE table.
- Volky
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Tonyorlo,
At idle my VE table is 27, 1000 rpms with an afr of 14.2.
To me it's all about how the engine likes it.
At idle my VE table is 27, 1000 rpms with an afr of 14.2.
To me it's all about how the engine likes it.
1970 VW Beetle with 2109cc turbo with MS-II v3.0, wasted spark, electronic boost controller, dual table, launch control and 3.88 tranny. All done by me... t03 running 48lb. Injectors, Intercooler, Water/Meth injection at 15psi.
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Plus: some injectors aren't like other injectors!
A lineair caracteristic right up to very small opening times (idle) is very important with big injectors. The bigger the injector, the more important this becomes. That's why I like ID injectors so much. Quality costs though. Nothing new there.
A lineair caracteristic right up to very small opening times (idle) is very important with big injectors. The bigger the injector, the more important this becomes. That's why I like ID injectors so much. Quality costs though. Nothing new there.
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4003
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Gonna agree with Wally here, I have 96lb/hr(ID1000) injectors on my 2276, and will probably run at least that big on my planned 1600. The big motor idles just fine, and I expect the little one to behave as well.
-
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:36 am
T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intake
Used some 1000cc/min injectors on a stock 1600 running a mexico efi setup with an amr500. Idled fine running regular gas or e85.
Alex
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Alex
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- Udo Airbus
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:22 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Many thanks for the advice about the injectors.
Some build pics..
made the exhaust, added external waste gate (a bit big but that's easy for upgrades)
Still need to fabric the exhaust part that comes after the turbo.
On the pic the airride is full up.. once down I have 3.5 cm clearance under the exhaust
And waiting for QSP parts..
Some build pics..
made the exhaust, added external waste gate (a bit big but that's easy for upgrades)
Still need to fabric the exhaust part that comes after the turbo.
On the pic the airride is full up.. once down I have 3.5 cm clearance under the exhaust
And waiting for QSP parts..
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VW T1 1964 - Mouse Grey - Pearl White OG paint
Bagged, Porsche steeringrack/brakes..IRS, 1915cc
Bagged, Porsche steeringrack/brakes..IRS, 1915cc
- rubenski
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:28 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Nice! Wish i could weld like that!
Better to be blown than to suck!
-
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Looks good! That looks like stainless, right? Mig'd? Got a few questions, I looked back trough the thread and saw it was discussed but didn't see what you went with. Where are you supplying and returning oil to and from the turbo? Also, I like that dipstick, was that made from using a dipstick from another car?
- Udo Airbus
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:22 am
Re: T4 1971cc Megasquirt turbo - Needs advice on turbo intak
Thank guys.. it's made of scrap parts to keep the costs a bit low I really want to make a new exhaust, but will do that maybe wilt a turbo upgrade.
Its almost all stainless but just normal mig/mag welds..
Also a lot of old welds since I "remade" the old exhaust.
I will feed the turbo oil from the oil sensor.. and the retour line will be made in the dipstick part.
The dipstick was from the cu 2.0 , and I made it in the cap.
At the moment I'm in Germany for my Job, but soon back in the garage (new parts arrived)
Its almost all stainless but just normal mig/mag welds..
Also a lot of old welds since I "remade" the old exhaust.
I will feed the turbo oil from the oil sensor.. and the retour line will be made in the dipstick part.
The dipstick was from the cu 2.0 , and I made it in the cap.
At the moment I'm in Germany for my Job, but soon back in the garage (new parts arrived)
VW T1 1964 - Mouse Grey - Pearl White OG paint
Bagged, Porsche steeringrack/brakes..IRS, 1915cc
Bagged, Porsche steeringrack/brakes..IRS, 1915cc