Fitech
- volksbugly
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- buguy
- Posts: 6209
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
I watched a good video on YouTube last night on hooking all the megasquirt stuff up. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on now. Still not 100% sure on which megasquirt I need though. I think since the car isn't here yet I will buy one that needs assembled. Maybe get the simulator to test it with too. Keep my idle hands busy til the car arrives.
- buguy
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Re: Fitech
Do you think if I'm going to do this, I may as well jump in feet first and plan on making some serious boost? I've already been boosting 8-10 psi with the draw through. I don't know what it would take for sure to make 20-25 psi, but surely it can't be too much more parts/work. What are your thoughts?
- Chip Birks
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Re: Fitech
Like anything, start low, go as high as you can in stages. That kind of boost will require really good fuel, intercooling, and possibly water/meth injection.
- buguy
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Re: Fitech
I just want to be sure I build it with the intent to build good boost. No sense buying/building stuff a third time.
- Piledriver
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Re: Fitech
Pretty much any MS2 or MS3 setup will work, including microsquirt, which is probably the very lowest cost option.
Having said that, a "boxed" Ms2 with a v3 mainboard (if ordered with the MS3 "box") can trivially become a MS3 by simply adding the MS3 and an MS3x. (You can actually use an MS3X on an MS2 in a MS2 std box, but I digress)
note a full ms3+MS3x setup with knock and clock module and second (ms3x) harness will easily cost double what a microsquirt does, while having far more capability that you may or may not need.
(I'm only vaguely aware what competitive systems cost, the few I have looked at look OK but you are on your own support wise, or at the mercy of the distributor at best)
For comparison, a "full up" MS3+MS3X with knock and RTC options will still cost less than just a J&S Safeguard alone.
Having said that, a "boxed" Ms2 with a v3 mainboard (if ordered with the MS3 "box") can trivially become a MS3 by simply adding the MS3 and an MS3x. (You can actually use an MS3X on an MS2 in a MS2 std box, but I digress)
note a full ms3+MS3x setup with knock and clock module and second (ms3x) harness will easily cost double what a microsquirt does, while having far more capability that you may or may not need.
(I'm only vaguely aware what competitive systems cost, the few I have looked at look OK but you are on your own support wise, or at the mercy of the distributor at best)
For comparison, a "full up" MS3+MS3X with knock and RTC options will still cost less than just a J&S Safeguard alone.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- buguy
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- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
Holy hell! You've lost me already! I don't know what any of that stuff is!
Right now all I really know is I want to control fuel, spark, boost control, 2 step or the like, water/meth, and possibly nitrous.
Also I need to pick the right tb and turbo that can handle more boost when called upon. Whatever head work I need if any, can.. etc....
Right now all I really know is I want to control fuel, spark, boost control, 2 step or the like, water/meth, and possibly nitrous.
Also I need to pick the right tb and turbo that can handle more boost when called upon. Whatever head work I need if any, can.. etc....
- Chip Birks
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- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: Fitech
Are you planning on all of this with a stock bottom end 1600?
- Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Fitech
buguy wrote:Holy hell! You've lost me already! I don't know what any of that stuff is!
Right now all I really know is I want to control fuel, spark, boost control, 2 step or the like, water/meth, and possibly nitrous.
Also I need to pick the right tb and turbo that can handle more boost when called upon. Whatever head work I need if any, can.. etc....
Sorry, lamely trying to explain the standard "metal case" Megasquirt hardware should be considered "modular", in that you could build a MS1, then upgrade to MS2 or MS3 and add a MS3X just by adding more hardware a module at a time.
(The MS3x has 8x logic ignition drivers, 8 injector drivers and a bunch of other I/O, the original high current injector drivers on the mainboard can be used for other things)
A microsquirt paired with a 3bar GM MAP sensor will probably meets your immediate needs, but there is no upgrade path to MS3, the only microsquirt upgrades I know exist are add-in ign and injector modules to run sequential, but most folks would need to have that done for them as involves SMT board rework.
Some folks here have experience with MS1, but I only played with it briefly as it can't do some of the things I wanted to do.
I can neither recommend it nor say it sucks--but there are folk here who still run it daily...
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- buguy
- Posts: 6209
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
I'm on the fence on this. I've considered building it on the stock bottom end and then if it doesn't hold it build something else. Is there anything to lose doing it that way? Besides time maybe? I don't plan on throwing A bunch of boost at it right away, but once I have it done and tuning figured out I'm sure I will begin turning it up.Chip Birks wrote:Are you planning on all of this with a stock bottom end 1600?
- buguy
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- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
Thanks for trying to simplify that for me. I guess I need to do more research and figure out exactly what I need and/or what I may need in the future before pulling the trigger on the MS.Piledriver wrote:buguy wrote:Holy hell! You've lost me already! I don't know what any of that stuff is!
Right now all I really know is I want to control fuel, spark, boost control, 2 step or the like, water/meth, and possibly nitrous.
Also I need to pick the right tb and turbo that can handle more boost when called upon. Whatever head work I need if any, can.. etc....
Sorry, lamely trying to explain the standard "metal case" Megasquirt hardware should be considered "modular", in that you could build a MS1, then upgrade to MS2 or MS3 and add a MS3X just by adding more hardware a module at a time.
(The MS3x has 8x logic ignition drivers, 8 injector drivers and a bunch of other I/O, the original high current injector drivers on the mainboard can be used for other things)
A microsquirt paired with a 3bar GM MAP sensor will probably meets your immediate needs, but there is no upgrade path to MS3, the only microsquirt upgrades I know exist are add-in ign and injector modules to run sequential, but most folks would need to have that done for them as involves SMT board rework.
Some folks here have experience with MS1, but I only played with it briefly as it can't do some of the things I wanted to do.
I can neither recommend it nor say it sucks--but there are folk here who still run it daily...
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4003
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: Fitech
Do you have specific power goals? Or do you just want to run high boost? With the right combo of parts you can make good power, with low boost. On the flip side, there are combos that make tons of boost and not a lot of power. Turbo tech can make or break a combo.
- buguy
- Posts: 6209
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
No I really don't know. I had a 1200 in my car for years. I picked up the 1600 and turboed it so I really don't know what power is what with a bug. I just figured if I'm going to boost I may as well go for it. It seemed to me a stock 1600 is pretty down on compression and should be able to boost quite a bit with a good tune. I may go ahead with forged P/C set just so I know what I have to start with. I bought the engine used and have never been in it.
- buguy
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- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
I realize with a street car it would be better to make good power and then run lower boost for better driveability, but if I leave it how it is it won't make good power off boost.
- buguy
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- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:53 pm
Re: Fitech
Well crap. I had hoped to get up to get the car during the hurricane but I couldn't convince the wife to go that far. At least the house is still standing. I'm going to try to get up in a couple weeks. I'm ready to get started. Kinda bummed though because I don't see E85 anywhere.