1600 turbo build thread

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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Clonebug
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by Clonebug » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:47 pm

buguy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:30 pm
Looks like 13 or so.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcboost.html
Yep...
I use 130 degrees as default and .90 on the VE because that is what my engine works out to on the numbers.

If you know your IAT's you can use them.
For Ex.... use 90 degree IAT's and you can get the same at 11.17 lbs. boost.

IAT's and rpm are two big game changers.....
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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petew
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by petew » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:11 pm

buguy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:35 pm
Looks like all I would have to do with a stock engine to Max out my carb and turbo is run 35 psi. That's 285 hp at the flywheel. Gonna need some E85 I think!
I'd pay a dollar to see that... and give you a broom and dust pan to pickup the remains. :roll:

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:48 pm

I might get close!
viewtopic.php?t=102753

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Chip Birks
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:18 pm

Clonebug wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:47 pm
buguy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:30 pm
Looks like 13 or so.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcboost.html
Yep...
I use 130 degrees as default and .90 on the VE because that is what my engine works out to on the numbers.

If you know your IAT's you can use them.
For Ex.... use 90 degree IAT's and you can get the same at 11.17 lbs. boost.

IAT's and rpm are two big game changers.....
I wish I knew my IAT from my Dyno pull at the time. Mine made 201whp at 7psi before 6000. Then followed it with 236whp at 8.5 again before 6000. IAT wouldn't have been super low, running ambient temp water on probably a 75-80°F day. I hadn't ever iced the tank at that point either. Just ran it with the water it had in it.

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:50 am

I have a feeling yours is a bit more efficient than most with those pistons and better compression ratio.

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Balls. I had my guy measure my wrist pin and bushing in the rod. Too much clearance. Guess I will just buy new rods. The rod hone at work is broken so I'd have to have new bushings done somewhere else and would surely have $50 or more in the original ones. I saw come forged chromoly rods somewhere for $120, probably just get those.

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:40 am

Ok guys I haven't pulled the trigger on my parts yet because I just can't decide. Here is where my head is.
If I want to 8 dowel my crank, I have to buy the jig, and the dowel pins. I'd be looking at about $65-$70. So for another $125 I could get a mini striker crank. Wadda ya think? I really don't want to spend more, but does it just make sense at this point? http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1106.htm
I already have to buy rods, so I could get them in a bit smaller 5.325 length to keep my width down on a 76mm on a 2110, or even go with a 74mm for a 2054.
Is it just smart money now to get a cw crank and a bit of a stroke as opposed to drilling my old one?

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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by madmike » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:36 am

I know I would find a stroker crank :lol: porsche length rods may work out great? you'll find out when u do the mock up :wink:(also sometimes u have to clearance the skirts on the piston so they don't hit the crank throws ,this is check on mockup not a big deal ya just have to rebalance the pistons anyhow) but if the stock rod length works,? stock rods are great rods and are forged too :wink: & there cheap

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:26 am

Yeah I guess I'm just unsure about the extra throw. I'm not sure I can even get the compression down enough without a stroker crank. I'd really rather not have to use a spacer. Also I don't want to buy a crank just to find on mockup that it won't work. I know people build these, but most don't say how they deal with the extra length. I would have to think there is math that could be worked out on how to do it, but that's only assuming we would know exact specs on the 94mm pistons. Location of the wrist pin that is. But just assuming they are the same as stock (which I doubt) adding a 76mm crank would add 3.5mm each way. That's a lot to have to make up with spacers. Seems like I saw spacers and they are like $100. About the same as it would cost for me to just get a B piston. Which is really probably my best bet if I want a stroker. I think with a B piston I could actually go to a 78-82mm crank and still be real close to stock size engine.
CB has uni-tech rods for less than $100 which seems like a good deal and as cheap as rebuilt stock rods.
With just a quick calculation, Porsche rods are about 1.75mm shorter and again assuming wrist pin height is the same on my new pistons, that puts me 1.75mm too long still for useable compression with no spacers. That's on stock heads of course. I'm planning to port the stock heads but I don't know how many cc's I can get out of it that way. Also so far I have only found Porsche rods in H beam $$.

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:36 am

Ok scratch that. Porsche length I beam rods are everywhere. But it is suggested to use a Max of 74mm crank that way. Which is an option id be ok with. Just seems silly for me to buy a stock size crank.

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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by Clonebug » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:24 am

It's the snowball thing.........you'll be wringing your hands for a year trying to get an engine together. As you assemble it you'll find you need a different crank...then rods.....crap.. now the pistons hit the crank throws too much so you get your second set of P/C's.....darn....now the rods aren't really right for deck height.....next you get a cam...more lift but the heads won't be perfect......get new heads and now you need a bigger cam, lifters to match.....and ....and.....damn it..... the rockers and pushrods need to be upgraded.........now you need dual springs and crap.... the deckheight is wrong for the head CC's..........
Finally assembled and .......well Art is having clutch problems with his dinky little 1679cc engine so....I guess I might as well get a Stage II PP and .....shucks....what disk is going to hold????
Need a 250 ft lbs torque wrench along with an input shaft to test the holding power and crap again...my super duper disc isn't holding enough for my estimated hp and torque..........do I shim or do I get a better disc????
Whew....engine is together.........carb and turbo is now too small and......I'm out of money so we will have to wait 6 months for more cash........but, but......I forgot about the transmission!!!!!!!!
Art blew 3rd and 4th gear syncro hubs at 13-15 lbs boost and had to pull it to get it rebuilt.......I better look into that.......no rebuilders close by so sniff, sniff.......I have to ship the stinking tranny all the way to the west coast for a upgrade..........

Sound familiar??????/

You ain't seen nothing yet..........go ahead.......build a stroker they said......you'll have lots of power they said.......5 years later........blown ring lands due to detonation.........

My advice.........build a cheap durable engine and put your money into the engine control......you can thank me later......

Tim'sACVW can build you a sweet engine for cheap if you send him a clean case and the parts you have that are good....let him do the dirty work.

I can wire......I can fab a little......but I am not an engine builder and I'm not interested in going to that school and scattering parts everywhere just to say I built my own destroyed engine.....There's enough to worry about when you get into the boost.
FI is the only way to go if you want to get serious about a daily driver that will run every day reliably.
It still isn't easy though........
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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buguy
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by buguy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:52 am

Yeah you nailed all of it Art. I'm about to throw some rings and stock size rods in it, and put the damn thing back together! I was excited about this before, but now I'm just getting frustrated!

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rubenski
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by rubenski » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:59 am

Hehe, its like youre fighting yourself buguy!

Just put your mind to an engine setup and stick with it.

There will always be a bigger stronger setup on the market and in advice you get from here and there.

My case will be opened again for my rebuild but im sticking to the cc's i have!
Better to be blown than to suck!

Clonebug
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by Clonebug » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:43 pm

Nothing wrong with a 1600,1641, 1679 or a 1915 for that matter since you have to get heads anyways unless you solved the cracked head issue.

When you start adding things to make it turn high rpm's or have better flow at the high rpm's is where you get snowballed.

Stock crank spinning to 5500 rpm......88mm barrels with heads cut for 90.5/92 is a very simple engine...add a little more lift than stock or balance it with a C/W crank and get bigger heads and a higher lift cam and you can keep it under control.
A 1915 will need a bigger cam and better heads to flow enough plus you have to get your deck and head CC's adjusted to make it work.
I'm sure the 1915 would work good with a W-100 cam and 1.25 rockers but add duel springs or bigger cam. You just can't expect the world with it.
A 1641 is good to 400 whp if you really want to push it.
Obviously your engine needs a rebuild......how far do you want to go.......

Just don't let the sambanistas suck you into building a stroker pig that you don't dare or can't afford to throw boost at......they are really good at helping spend other peoples money and then disappearing......

Here is what I would do.....
Stock crank....
94mm P/C's or 88mm P/C's
Cam with about .450 lift keep the duration down a bit for idle quality.
40X35mm heads unported.......panchitos would be good....the AA's are even great and cheaper...
55-57cc chambers
.040-.060 deck
This gives you a 8.1-8.5:1 compression depending on cam....more duration equals more available static compression.
CB rods.
26mm oil pump.
Full flow the engine....
Quality bearings
8 dowelled crank
Stage II PP and CB super Disc checked with torque wrench to get 250 plus ft. torque before slippage....use shims(8mm wavy washers work) to set it.
Transmission needs the syncro hubs welded.
Good brakes and tight frontend.
Get yourself some FI and work your way up in boost.......you will need to do upgrades as you go.......the sky is the limit.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Chip Birks
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Re: 1600 turbo build thread

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:52 pm

There is nothing wrong with running a spacer under a cylinder, I've never paid $100 for one either. My 2276 has .02 spacers out of a bckpack or EMPI package, like $10 and then .06 coppers on top of the cylinders, I think I splurged on those, paid like $25. 74x94 is an annoying engine to build if you don't use stroker rods. I might even have a set of very nice ones available if you are interested. They are just good old VW 311Bs clearanced and prepped by the good folks at GENE BERG. They were in my old 2054, before I lost my mind and built my big stroker. I think I ran about .09 shims under the cylinders. Not sure if I had coppers, but possibly.

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