1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Stage 2: Mockup!

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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Clonebug
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Clonebug » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:47 pm

rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:02 am
And what nozzle do you have? And set at what pressures of boost?
It's all covered in my build.

I have two nozzles. One is 1.0 gph starting at 4 lbs boost and a second one at 2.0 gph starting at 8-9 lbs boost.
I cranked my pump up to 120 lbs. pressure. It does cycle on and off but the new internal bypass pumps are really the way to go so you don''t have pulsing.
The higher the pressure the finer the mist....the finer the mist the better it cools the air.
Is mine ideal???? ....probably not but it has worked quite well for 4 or five years.
I use quite a bit of water and I can't remember the exact flow rates in cc's per minute. I use the calculator on the Devils Own website and for the hp I'm putting out I'm pretty close to what they say I should be at.
I did convert the flow rates from gph to cc's/min but again I can't recall exactly what they were....I also tested the flow and it was higher than what the nozzles were rated at and Devil's Own said that was because I run lower pressure than what they test them at. They test at 200 psi and say they flow less the higher the pressure.
I stage mine because 2.0 gph at 4-6 lbs boost made my engine blubber and cough on the mountain passes when I was running the insta-boost turbo.
With the 1.0 gph kicking on at 4 lbs it doesn't mind that amount and also I have two switches on the dash that I can cut boost control and WI and still get 6.0 lbs boost without needing the water.
The intercooler has changed all this now since my air temps are staying below 107 degree at 24 lbs. boost.
It's going to climb a little when the weather gets hotter but I think it will be fine.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:09 pm

I will have an intercooler too. I think its even bigger than yours. And 2 fans wich suck alot of air trough it.

The w/m will be for the 3rd stage of my project.

1st stage will be the efi NA tune (base tune, no boost. Chargepipe disconnected)
2nd stage low boost 7psi max
3rd stage all boost 7-14psi.

Only then i think i will need the water injection because of the intercooler.

One thing i'm worried about is where i will put all the efi stuff, w/m pump, reservoir....

Plus with the placing of the intercooler i will lose 1 of my 2 storage boxes in the "backseat-area".
And the other one is taken by my battery...

Under the dash is not gonna work. Barely any room because of the current fusebox layout and wiper motor for the windscreen....
Better to be blown than to suck!

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:11 pm

Image
Better to be blown than to suck!

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:45 pm

So compared to you my 200cc is 3+ gph.

Pretty big if we got comparable engine sizes.

Maybe i should start with a 1 gph nozzle

https://youtu.be/RMZVi0VcgnE

The quality on the video sucks but you get the point
Better to be blown than to suck!

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Chip Birks
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Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah

Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:38 pm

rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:09 pm
I will have an intercooler too. I think its even bigger than yours. And 2 fans wich suck alot of air trough it.

The w/m will be for the 3rd stage of my project.

1st stage will be the efi NA tune (base tune, no boost. Chargepipe disconnected)
2nd stage low boost 7psi max
3rd stage all boost 7-14psi.

Only then i think i will need the water injection because of the intercooler.

One thing i'm worried about is where i will put all the efi stuff, w/m pump, reservoir....

Plus with the placing of the intercooler i will lose 1 of my 2 storage boxes in the "backseat-area".
And the other one is taken by my battery...

Under the dash is not gonna work. Barely any room because of the current fusebox layout and wiper motor for the windscreen....
I got tricky with a lot of my components. W/m pump is under the passenger foot rest, ecu is in the box with the battery, my water tank is huge, and sits up front on top of my gas tank. I have a large ice tank for my intercooler on the opposite the battery. Just takes a little creativity.

Clonebug
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:28 am

Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Clonebug » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:17 pm

rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:45 pm
So compared to you my 200cc is 3+ gph.

Pretty big if we got comparable engine sizes.

Maybe i should start with a 1 gph nozzle

https://youtu.be/RMZVi0VcgnE

The quality on the video sucks but you get the point
You are going to have to crank the pressure up......20 lbs water pressure is going to be down to 10 lbs. if you have 10 lbs. boost.
Turn that pump up as high as you can. If you can't get 100 lbs pressure out of it you might want to find a better pump.
The problem with running one big nozzle is you have 2.0 gph as soon as the pump kicks on whether you are running low or high boost depending on when the pump is set to kick on.
That is why I went to two nozzles, two solenoids and a single pump.

Image

3.0 gph is for max boost and max hp not for when you just want a little extra oomph for a traffic situation. I found it annoying when the WI kicked on and the engine blubbered but then when I turn off the WI I would get detonation.
I finally got it set up nicely with two different nozzles and solenoids. It has been trouble free and detonation free for two years now.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 am

Clonebug wrote:
rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:45 pm
So compared to you my 200cc is 3+ gph.

Pretty big if we got comparable engine sizes.

Maybe i should start with a 1 gph nozzle

https://youtu.be/RMZVi0VcgnE

The quality on the video sucks but you get the point
You are going to have to crank the pressure up......20 lbs water pressure is going to be down to 10 lbs. if you have 10 lbs. boost.
Turn that pump up as high as you can. If you can't get 100 lbs pressure out of it you might want to find a better pump.
The problem with running one big nozzle is you have 2.0 gph as soon as the pump kicks on whether you are running low or high boost depending on when the pump is set to kick on.
That is why I went to two nozzles, two solenoids and a single pump.

Image

3.0 gph is for max boost and max hp not for when you just want a little extra oomph for a traffic situation. I found it annoying when the WI kicked on and the engine blubbered but then when I turn off the WI I would get detonation.
I finally got it set up nicely with two different nozzles and solenoids. It has been trouble free and detonation free for two years now.
But i dont know yet how much psi the pump puts out.
The pressure on the gauge i have i my hand is the boost pressure i simulate wit the air compressor to get it working.
Hope you are not confusing it with pump pressure
Better to be blown than to suck!

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:38 am

Chip Birks wrote:
rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:09 pm
I will have an intercooler too. I think its even bigger than yours. And 2 fans wich suck alot of air trough it.

The w/m will be for the 3rd stage of my project.

1st stage will be the efi NA tune (base tune, no boost. Chargepipe disconnected)
2nd stage low boost 7psi max
3rd stage all boost 7-14psi.

Only then i think i will need the water injection because of the intercooler.

One thing i'm worried about is where i will put all the efi stuff, w/m pump, reservoir....

Plus with the placing of the intercooler i will lose 1 of my 2 storage boxes in the "backseat-area".
And the other one is taken by my battery...

Under the dash is not gonna work. Barely any room because of the current fusebox layout and wiper motor for the windscreen....
I got tricky with a lot of my components. W/m pump is under the passenger foot rest, ecu is in the box with the battery, my water tank is huge, and sits up front on top of my gas tank. I have a large ice tank for my intercooler on the opposite the battery. Just takes a little creativity.
Hi Chip,
In a bug i wouldnt worry about space.

But im doing thus in a manx buggy....
Better to be blown than to suck!

Clonebug
Posts: 3394
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:28 am

Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Clonebug » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:41 am

rubenski wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 am
But i dont know yet how much psi the pump puts out.
The pressure on the gauge i have i my hand is the boost pressure i simulate wit the air compressor to get it working.
Hope you are not confusing it with pump pressure
I thought that was pump pressure. :roll: :? :oops:
Put a tee in the line between the pump and the nozzle and test it. You want good pressure to atomize the water.

According to the Devil's Own nozzle calculator you would need a 1.0 gph nozzle at 10 lbs. boost and 5500 rpm with a 1641cc engine.
You need about 2.0 gph at 19 lbs. boost.

It's going to depend on how your engine is set up.....how much timing you pull at the midrange rpm, max torque, high boost area.
How your boost comes on and where makes a difference too. Also how high your IAT's are will make a difference.
If your intercooler works really good and you have low IAT's you might not need much water.

As for where to install everything.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are the engineer and the mechanic so that is up to you......I spent hours and hours out in the garage just trying to plan how to install everything.
If you don't have a steel angle iron installed across the body under the hood I suggest you build one. It's amazing what you can hang from that bar.
Mine is plumb full of stuff....but I can remove my hood easily......

Image

I use the engine shroud to hold a lot of my stuff. I don't drill new holes I use all existing holes and make brackets that fit on them.

Image

Here is my pump and water tank. The tank is from an old Craftsman Lawn Mower that my brother was going to toss and I grabbed since I knew I could find a use for it. It holds about 3 quarts and lasts for 600 plus miles under normal driving conditions.
I just built brackets out of scrap metal that I have in the garage. The pump sits under the tank on a metal bracket using a couple exhaust clamps around the torsion tube and the tank is mounted to the existing bolt holes that used to hold the bug body to the pan.

Image

Image

Here you can see the metal I bent up to mount to the two holes of where the body mounted. I took a piece of flat stock metal and bent it in the vice to make it hold the tank.

Image

If I don't like it or I come up with a better idea later I have no problem taking it apart the next winter and re-engineering it.
I have redone soooo much stuff it's ridiculous.....especially wiring. I need to buy stock in the ziptie market......... :roll: :shock: :cry:

On a buggy space is at a premium so you have to get a little creative to make it all work.
I'm either cursed or blessed to have only 6 months of driving time in a year. That gives me 6 months to plan my next upgrade while driving it and then the same amount of time to incorporate it into the buggy when I tear it apart in the winter........ :roll: :oops: :lol:
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Chip Birks
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:09 am

rubenski wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:38 am
Chip Birks wrote:
rubenski wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:09 pm
I will have an intercooler too. I think its even bigger than yours. And 2 fans wich suck alot of air trough it.

The w/m will be for the 3rd stage of my project.

1st stage will be the efi NA tune (base tune, no boost. Chargepipe disconnected)
2nd stage low boost 7psi max
3rd stage all boost 7-14psi.

Only then i think i will need the water injection because of the intercooler.

One thing i'm worried about is where i will put all the efi stuff, w/m pump, reservoir....

Plus with the placing of the intercooler i will lose 1 of my 2 storage boxes in the "backseat-area".
And the other one is taken by my battery...

Under the dash is not gonna work. Barely any room because of the current fusebox layout and wiper motor for the windscreen....
I got tricky with a lot of my components. W/m pump is under the passenger foot rest, ecu is in the box with the battery, my water tank is huge, and sits up front on top of my gas tank. I have a large ice tank for my intercooler on the opposite the battery. Just takes a little creativity.
Hi Chip,
In a bug i wouldnt worry about space.

But im doing thus in a manx buggy....
I definitely get that. Just trying to show that you can definitely think outside of the box when locating this stuff.

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:34 am

Thanks clone & chip
Great ideas!

I have some alloy sheet on my backseat area,

The current idea now is to make some sort of nice alloy box where i can fit the w/m stuff and the ecu and relays and all other aux stuff. And incorporating a watertight tank for the w/m mix. All in one piece.

Maybe curved behind the driver seat over the wheelwell.

But now its all its all just thinking and dreaming.

Untill i have all stuff (goddamnit cb-perf) i can do sh...

Those guys realy keep u waiting with no info whatso ever.....


Better to be blown than to suck!

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:50 am

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

I personally try to keep as much wiring/electronics out of the passenger compartment due to voltage drop in length and potential passenger damn!-age. My black buggy (if it ever gets done) will be wired that way.

Lee

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:37 am

Image


Lets give this a try!
Better to be blown than to suck!

madmike
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by madmike » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:01 am

PITA to install but they do the job ,, floor jack will help ,, make sure the trans studs are long enough :wink:

Ol'fogasaurus
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am

I'm a little confused, what are the blocks for?

I'm in the process of using that area for part of my fuel tank mount so I am really curious.

Lee

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