1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Stage 2: Mockup!

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:30 am

They are really ahard urethane.

I cant get it on....


Loosened the front trans mount

Jacked the engine up a little in the rear.

No go...

Should i just shave a little of the dampning blocks?
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:15 am

https://moldeddimensions.com/urethanes- ... ession.php

This isn't going to help much but as I remember urethane does not compress well so if you shave it down to get a usable press-in fit and... if you make even a small a mistake you could be at a loss. There is so much I don't understand such as the "what and why" the blocks are there for and why they are jammed there hoping they will stay there or if there are other parts of the design I am not seeing... etc..
urethane block 01 copy.jpg
Adding a leg to slide into the square tube might help then press it in from the end but you would still need to "pin it into place" to hold it assuming there is nothing else to capture things (the bevel on each end of the tube could mean any one of several things) there but since I don't know what it is for nor the "loading" (types and direction) it is going to take this is nothing more than what we used to call "a SWAG" (stupid/silly wild-ass guess).
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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:31 am

I got it in.

Had to loose all nuts ont the front rubber trans mount.

Then jack un the engine in the back mm by mm.

Verry carefuly. Then with a little wiggeling it got over the threads.

Couldnt use every washer but where i couldnt i used blue locktite.

I jad to grind the blocks a verry little bit. Hardly noticable.

But when i put the bolts on the blocks it kinda compressed a bit too so u get a "U" shape.


ImageImageImageImageImageImage
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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:50 am

Also, this rubber was laying on top of the gearbox. Where it enteres the tunnel.

Doesnt seem like i can put in back easily, what does it do and can i leave it out?ImageImage
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Chip Birks
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 pm

That last one is just a seal. Important in an all weather daily driver. Probably less so in a fair weather buggy. The urethane blocks prevent the trans from torquing up against the nose cone mount. Its not a trans holder like the Berg mounts, just a sturdy stop. Works real good. I have that, and a truss bar, along with the standard front and rear solid mounts. My car launches hard and smooth, no wheel hop.

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:26 pm

I have the new one i just posted, a kafer bar and stock mounts on front and rear of the trans.

Solid mount is overkill for me.

I wonder if i will feel the difference.

Anyway what doesnt kill it makes it stronger
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:34 pm

Now that the bolts are shown I see what it is intended to do. I was wondering what the shadows were in the blocks which is why I tried to do an edit on the pix. It must work but you have the potential of doing a lot of jumping around in that area with what you are doing and not all of it is going to be up and down either. Some of it might be twisting, ovals or even figure 8s. Be sure to weld the seams.

Remember, the truss/Kaffer/traction bars are connected directly to the torsion assembly and the connections to the pan are not all that strong. Also, your glass body doesn't have the same structural body to help with it either. One of the reasons I am looking into the experimental way I am going.

Lee

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Chip Birks
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:34 pm
Now that the bolts are shown I see what it is intended to do. I was wondering what the shadows were in the blocks which is why I tried to do an edit on the pix. It must work but you have the potential of doing a lot of jumping around in that area with what you are doing and not all of it is going to be up and down either. Some of it might be twisting, ovals or even figure 8s. Be sure to weld the seams.

Remember, the truss/Kaffer/traction bars are connected directly to the torsion assembly and the connections to the pan are not all that strong. Also, your glass body doesn't have the same structural body to help with it either. One of the reasons I am looking into the experimental way I am going.

Lee
I don't get the impression that this lowered street buggy will be doing much off-roading.

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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Think of it this way... He's running a turbo EFI bug engine in a FG buggy also a topless car right? Your sitting at a light minding your own business whe a guy pulls up next to you, buzzes his engine a couple of time so you step on the loud pedal and wind it and the turbo up to maybe 5 or 6 grand then, when the light changes (hopefully it is not the left turn light), drop the hammer and all kinds of twisty nasty stuff happens to the car. W/o a steel body on it, just the pan, there is not going to be a lot of load transfer via. the top and sides of the steel body and the topless the FG body isn't going to be able to do much load transfer work.

You are now doing a lot of the same loading that comes into play off-road which is why I mentioned the changes.
leecar38 copy.jpg
This is one of my cars that saw the strip and the street. Even with proper frame ties professionally and properly welded in the unibody popped the spot welded seams at the join of the firewall and floor due to the torque the 306cu in V8 engine w/a modified C4, 9" w/ traction goodies and wrinkle walls that was applied to the unibody; in other words... the car was totaled. One of the reasons I am a bit antsy on unibody cars and the bug is one type of unibody but not welded but bolted together.

Lee
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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:18 am

My manx will get the occasional beating but keep in mind that manxess are hard to come by here and they're not cheap.

I tend to keep this one and it!
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:15 am

Even with all the clones, they are getting harder and harder to find here too. I also was younger (a long time ago) and the scenario I posted is not out of the realm of reality. While I am sure you would never do anything like that... "stupid" just takes a second to happen and you never know when he will attack :roll: :twisted: so I recommend you to be prepared.

Years ago (in the early '90s when I was just getting into VWs and especially into glass buggies) I was up at a early models VW only junk yard and the owner and another guy were talking and showing to me junk VW pans and what can happen to them. One of the things they mentioned was the tunnel, in front between the shifter hole and the Napoléon's hat had a tendency to bend there due (they thought) to the leverage of unsupported frame head and maybe the lack of the body for support which is why I bought the two sets of upper and lower beam supports. It is also one of several reasons I built the 3" body lift rather than buying one; I had a lot of conversations on that subject alone. Much stronger even when the commercial body lift is "boxed". The first time I stepped into my finished blue buggy I immediately noticed the different feel and that was even before I sat down; the outer parameter of the pan halves did not flex! Nothing to do with off-road, just the strengthening of the pan.

Lee

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:37 am

No, please do. I appreciate it!

Ive been looking into those beam supports too. Like the one on a thing! Vw181

I would love to do the rollcage thing too but not in this stadium. Maybe later.

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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:29 am

One thing I did that I would do differently and that had to do with the body lift and the under pan stiffener I added.
001.JPG
This is the one place I would make a different piece. I used a 1" X 1" X 6' length square tubing that was shortened then kerfed into shape. It could be bend with a roller, heat bend using a jig or kerf bent like I did but instead of 1" X 1" I would go 1" X 2" with the 2" length being the vertical length. The reason I would make a change was when I put some weight on this when figuring out the location for the seats (a fit check with a couple different people of different heights for the seat and slider mount fit check) w/o the 1 X 3 body lift on top and bolted to it the 1" piece bent slightly. The two inch side being vertical would be less likely to do that. I would also put in a doubler in the kerf bend areas. For off-roaders the 1 X 2 could be used for a rock slider with some different modification to keep the ends of the bolts out of the way.

For reference this is a full sized pan: the bend at the left is the start of the door area and the slighter bend on the right is the end of the door area.

Lee
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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:40 am

I have that, kinda hard to see but its there!ImageImage
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:50 am

d492a750110233b2e34961dc32c5e8b0[1] copy.jpg
Good job! Thinking ahead I see.
IMG_0206 (2) copy.jpg
The pan kind of wimpy all by itself doesn't it :wink: :roll: :twisted: .
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