1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Stage 2: Mockup!

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:25 pm

I am currently playing with the same problem but attacking it differently as my buggy is not for the street. My big problem is with the attachment to the upper shock bolt. For the street it should be less of a problem unless you are on the loud pedal all the time.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... &start=720

It starts a couple of pages before this.

Lee

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 pm

I has a quick look at you topic. Looks Nice.

I turned the bracket around on the short rods to give it a bit more iron to weld to the bolt bushing.

Next up is to score some 8mm iron to make the new brackets off the template i made. Then tack it on the car and weld it on the bench.

That will be the last fabbing for this winter i think.

Saving christmas $ for the turbo conversion is also on the to do list...
Better to be blown than to suck!

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petew
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by petew » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 pm

I remember building my kafer bar setup on my old buggy. What a nightmare. No room under there just like your's. This is what I did...

DSCF0029.JPG

The tabs on the ends held the shocks and the big tubes took the back roll bar down to the chassis. Man what a lot of work, but it made a HUGE difference. It's worth the hard work.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:16 pm

As I said in my build, it was the long shock bolts and the weakness of the shock towers eye that was and is still bothering me.

I could only get 5 1/2" (126 2⁄2mm) long bolts and need something like 6" of shank ("grip" grip is the dimensional stack of things you are trying to clamp together) to protect the threads. The way things were mounted it was putting a loading on the head of the bolt, the shank and/or the threads with the threads actually being in potential shear in the eye of the shock tower or in the end piece of the Truss kit depending on the direction the bolt was inserted. Longer bolts would be special order ($$$) which only may have solved the thread problem.

I still don't like what I have come up with but the buggy and pan decides so much of any design. One of the reasons I haven't cut or bent too much more than what you see in the photos. I'm not in that big of a hurry to jump into something I am not comfortable with yet.

Lee

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petew
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by petew » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:03 pm

Anything that retains the stock shock towers is really a bandaid fix. 60+yo chassis design + throwing away the stressed member (body shell) = catch-up football of the highest order. Ol'fog, I'm surprised you didn't just build your's into the roll cage. That's what I'd do if I had my time again.

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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:01 pm

The cage hasn't been started yet as I have had so many changes... then with changes on them. So far it is the seating, next to the front hood of the body that has had the most impact in the cage. On my blue buggy that became very apparent when I went from the car seats where you sat high up and your legs were bent to were you are sitting just off the floor and your legs were straight out which ends up pushing the seats farther to the rear. I wanted to sit within the body lines, as weak as it is, rather that be thrown about sitting high up in the air. It is often what you see and hear besides what happens to you that changes your way at looking at things.

The location of the fuel tank and battery also has affected things, this is because the nose/hood's removal on this body does not exist so no fuel tank up front (don't want that location anyway on the sand as you want the front of the car to stay light at least where I ride that is the feeling).
IMG_0647.JPG
This might give you an idea of just how far to the rear the seats are going to be now and this is for me, my oldest stepson is quite a few inches taller than me hence the seat is almost to the rear of the pan. This is one of the reasons the fuel tank is back to being put in the rear of the car (I never wanted it in the passenger compartment. anyway) and the battery would be a tight fit if I had allowed adjustable rails for the passenger seat. To do the cage like you said would probably require a bend in the down tubes which I still might have to have. Don't like bends in structural tube as that weakens them allowing to the rear movement on some types of rollovers. For some reasons, most of the rollovers weigh most on the forward hoop which then pushes the rest of the cage towards the rear. Now days I'm not in a position to see them like I used to but I did see a few in my time.

Lee
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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:00 pm

petew wrote:Anything that retains the stock shock towers is really a bandaid fix. 60+yo chassis design + throwing away the stressed member (body shell) = catch-up football of the highest order. Ol'fog, I'm surprised you didn't just build your's into the roll cage. That's what I'd do if I had my time again.
Hi pete,

I know all this stuff will not strenghten the chassis as much as an full rollcage will do but for street only it will be sufficient.

Guess it will be better than nothing. Every little bit of strenghtening will help that 50yr old chassis get a little stronger.

Plus it just looks cool.


Damn, that turbo laying arround in my garage is getting on my nerves.

Yesterday i removed the stock wastegate, (read: bolted the acctuator off)

I would want to start taking the carbs and stuff off and get the turbo-setup going but since the funds dont allow it just yet i must wait...

Plus starting now will result in me not getting every thing ready for the next driving season.
And since i only got the buggy for less than a year it would mean i allready worked longer on it than i had driven it.... and that cant be right, right?

So ill get to wait it out a little year and save a fex extra $$$

Greetz!
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Clonebug
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Clonebug » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:56 pm

I spent a couple years gathering and hoarding parts for my turbo build.......it's only time....... 8) :cry:

Just keep it close to driveable so if something doesn't work out quite right you can drive it in the nice weather and work on it in the winter or colder months.
I always consider Mid October thru Mid April as upgrade time. :wink:
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:18 pm

"I know all this stuff will not strenghten the chassis as much as an full rollcage will do but for street only it will be sufficient." rubenski wrote

I am not sure that this is 100% true. Yes, it will strengthen up the pan area and, if done right, might help with the rear torsion and the front beam but it has limitations too. That "might" part is part of what I am fighting with myself. You might say that your are trying to change something into something that the something was not designed to do.

If I was to start building the "T" style of buggy I am playing with with the intent of using it on the sand/off-road... I probably wouldn't... knowing what I know now. But, to the good, I have learned a lot and spent a lot to learn what I have learned. :roll: :twisted:

Lee

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:27 pm

Well its a race proven part, i take comfort in that.

Its made for strenghtening and it will strenghten something!
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slowsixtyduece
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by slowsixtyduece » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:08 pm

I know all this stuff will not strenghten the chassis as much as an full rollcage will do but for street only it will be sufficient. Guess it will be better than nothing. Every little bit of strenghtening will help that 50yr old chassis get a little stronger.
For street your kafer brace will work just fine. I installed a similar brace by Mendeola and it took many hours to get it right so that I didnt have to cut any part of the body. The iron/metal brackets were very stiff and difficult to manipulate but extremely thick and robust. Instead of the supplied pins, I used bolts on all connection points to allow it to all be cinched down with no movement.

Tying everything together helped tremendously, stiffening up the suspension a little bit but, more importantly, providing no wheel hop whatsoever - I have never had a VW that launches so smoothly and Ive had this setup at the track with absolutely no wheel hop issues. Im even using stock OG rubber trans mounts too.

As long as you can get your brackets figured out and use a suitable material and thickness, you should be just fine. The only better option, as mentioned earlier, is a cage that ties everything in.
Mendeola 1.jpg
Mendeola 2.jpg
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:34 pm

The Mendola "Stiffy" is probably the best of the comercial units I've seen but that is if you have an IRS suspension. The main weakness I see is in the shock mount bolt being so long. Yes, the Kaffer/Truss bar is also known as a "traction bar". The stack of parts you are clamping together is known as the "grip". On thing is clamping but it is another thing when side loading like this is added to the mix. On my setup I had to chang the length of the bolt to be 5 1/2" and even then the threads were in danger. Again, I spent a lot of time with people who specialized in fasteners and what you can or can't do with them.

"Race proven" is only good until it fails :wink: . Just trying be helpful...
Lee

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:59 am

That mendeola looks verry nice.

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rubenski
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by rubenski » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:19 am

Quick question.:

Is it possible to have the throttle body pre turbo? Like a draw trough?

Pro's con's?
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petew
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Re: 1641 Turbo EFI Manx. Gathering parts!

Post by petew » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:19 am

Slowsixtydeuce, an engineer friend of mine warned me about red parts...

But seriously. All the Spende... I mean, 'Mendeola' stuff is well built and solid. However, just by looking at it you can tell it's overdone. 3 bars and the "Berg" mount they're selling is what does all the work.

Rubenski, Yes. You can put your TB pre turbo. However you REALLY need a blowoff valve if you do so. Otherwise you'll end up with compressor surge which is really nasty for turbos. On ACVW, you also ended up with the added drama of trying to sort out odd throttle cables.

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