How much boost is practical for a daily driver

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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theKbStockpiler
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How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by theKbStockpiler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:18 pm

I was watching turbo beetles on Utube and most of them don't behave like a normal engine. They pop a lot ,don't idle normally and the turbo spoils the distinctive air cooled engine sound. So how much boost can a daily driver have and not adversely effect the bottom end.
Thanks for your expertise!
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Clonebug
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by Clonebug » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:22 pm

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:18 pm
I was watching turbo beetles on Utube and most of them don't behave like a normal engine. They pop a lot ,don't idle normally and the turbo spoils the distinctive air cooled engine sound. So how much boost can a daily driver have and not adversely effect the bottom end.
Thanks for your expertise!
I'm at 20 plus lbs. boost and it still sounds like a VW to me.

Mine idles smoothly and it only pops when I hit the rev limiter which is not too often.

Here is my YouTube channel...there are a few videos on there from driving down the road to a couple dyno pulls.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKZrGZ ... subscriber
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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buguy
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by buguy » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:52 pm

Your probably seeing a lot of draw through set ups. They just sound kind of loud and many have to idle a little high. As clone said, popping is usually the rev limiter. Some are caused by the 2 step. With a crude set up most are boosting 8-12 psi. That's with pump gas and a limited 009.

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Dan Dryden
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by Dan Dryden » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:55 pm

Bottom end performance is mainly effected by stroke and compression (and cam but well leave that out of this conversation).
The higher the compression you run, the lower the boost you will be able to run with it. You have to decide what you want the most - bottom end performance but limited at the top or slightly less bottom end zip but lots of mid range and high end performance.
As for the sound, it depends on what exhaust you run.
I run 21psi with a large muffler and think my engine sounds pretty much like most type 1 engines.

This was an in car video I did 5 years ago. It’s a pretty boring video but you should get a feel of the sound and how easy it is to drive in traffic.

https://youtu.be/mNunsHPbWlQ

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theKbStockpiler
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by theKbStockpiler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:28 pm

Thanks for the replies!

I'm surprised I could not find more street-able turbo beetle videos. The drag only cars are like a circus car in my opinion. You might as well dress like a clown while you are driving them. :lol: I like the Dung Beetle but its is over the edge as well for a daily driver. :D

I thought the purpose of a wide LSA was to limit reversion but the duration must be so extreme that they are still getting a lot of overlap which I did not expect. The wide LSA just makes it LESS worse.
I'm really interested in HOW the turbo boosts instead of only when it starts to spool or the max boost.
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buguy
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by buguy » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:46 pm

I like the drag cars! Maybe I'm a bit of a clown too though!

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buguy
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by buguy » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:01 pm

I have a bit of A clown car too!
https://youtu.be/uybLYH6APS0

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oprn
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by oprn » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:11 pm

You are watching the wrong guys. Cars built for the track are too radical and ill mannered for street driving. There is no reason for a mild turbo engine to not be as smooth and manageable on the street as the stock engine. It matters not whether it is suck through or blow through. The secret is to spend the time to set them up correctly. Clone bug can tell you how to do it with blow through and I had excellent results with a suck through weber DCOE and also later on with propane and a suck through Impco. Timing is just as important as fuel mixture in achieving this so don't fall for the "locked timing" thing please!

To answer your question the first 8 to 10 psi is the cheapest most trouble free you will get with the biggest hp gain. From there up the gains get smaller and the cost and complexity get bigger quickly.

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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by Clonebug » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:09 am

oprn wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:11 pm
To answer your question the first 8 to 10 psi is the cheapest most trouble free you will get with the biggest hp gain, But it gets really boring after about a week or two..
Fixed it for ya........ :wink:
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Chip Birks
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:15 am

Don't let the dung beetle stuff deceive you. That is a drag car with lights and a license plate. I highly doubt it spends any time cruising that isn't on camera or with some sort of purpose. Its not a daily driver.

I daily drive mine during the not snowing seasons of the year. I'll admit, its a little temperamental, huge cam, big heads, large turbo. It idles around 950 rpm nicely, drives pretty decent after some major tuning. Honestly it does exactly what I need it to do. Gets me where I want to go, and is a monster on the race track. The only change from street to race trim is the rear tires. I run e85 90% of the time simply because I have easy access to it. It runs on 91 octane just fine. I leave boost at between 14-18psi on the street, just using fuel and the intercooler, i think my methanol comes on at 14 or 18psi, but its not needed at that level. I'd like to put it in the 30psi range on the race track, been up to 28psi(accidentally) so far, anything over 18psi drove through my clutch this last year, though hopefully thats remedied now. It is a little lazy to come onto boost, the turbo doesn't start singing until 4500 or so, but thats fine. Its a 9.1:1 compression 2276 with big heads and a big cam. It gets around just fine off boost too. It has a magnaflow 2.5 inch muffler just like a thousand other performance bugs out there. Has a good exhaust note to it. Its not quiet, but its also not raspy like an open exhaust setup, I've had the cops knock on my door late a night because old ladies hate it. Oh yeah, it doesn't pop, unless i tell it to, and it'll idle all day long without loading up.

In the end it all comes down to what you are looking for. If you want something with incredible street manners, and a long smooth powerband, maybe you should look into a supercharger like Mario is testing right now. Or do a Subie swap, or just buy a Subaru. I turbo'd my car to make it breathe fire. Why do you want to turbo yours?

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oprn
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by oprn » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:42 am

Clonebug wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:09 am
oprn wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:11 pm
To answer your question the first 8 to 10 psi is the cheapest most trouble free you will get with the biggest hp gain, But it gets really boring after about a week or two.. and you will have time and money to do other things with the other people in your life!
There I fixed it again! :mrgreen:

At about 11psi on most engines you will have doubled the original HP. If you spend a bit of time refining the tuning you will be rewarded with a car that runs very nice on pump gas day after day. Don't worry it will have enough zip to surprise all but the big dollar guys at the lights and you will never again have to do an Olympic rowing act on the gear shift to get up a hill!

My draw through was like that. In fact it was our only car for several years and hauled the family and groceries, +34 in the summer to -40 in the winter... until (yes clonebug! :roll: ) I got greedy for more boost!

On the other hand, to it double again you will need about 25psi, expensive fuel, methanol injection, intercooling, lowered C/R, different cam, bigger valves, detailed engine blue printing and balancing, better ignition and mixture control, top dollar clutch mods, transaxle mods, engine/transaxle mounting mods, and possibly a smaller house with a second mortgage complete with a new wife!

That in my opinion is where practical ends and addiction starts.

Hi, My name is Merv and I am addicted to boost... ! :oops: :wink:

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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by madmike » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:47 am

Somebody give this guy a ride in a TURBO BUG :roll: :lol:
Yea mine was a Drag bug only sort of like Dung , but it drives like a normal car,just a Grocery Getter,,,,, with a Roll cage 8) 'maybe a little louder' :lol:
like chip I daylie mine weather permitting :wink: 93 octane 8-12lbs of boost

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theKbStockpiler
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by theKbStockpiler » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:09 pm

A big thanks to everyone who has posted.
[/quote]

I'm at 20 plus lbs. boost and it still sounds like a VW to me.

Mine idles smoothly and it only pops when I hit the rev limiter which is not too often.

Here is my YouTube channel...there are a few videos on there from driving down the road to a couple dyno pulls.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKZrGZ ... subscriber
[/quote]

If it's not an imposition, what town did you drive through ; is it considered a town, and area? It's very calming looking compared to a suburb in the U.S. It makes the town I live in look like a combination of a carnival and a slum with all the commercialism and short sighted infrastructure. One of my political lines is "I'm a scumbag american like everyone else here". I did not know it was true to the extent it is. :shock:
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MarioVelotta
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by MarioVelotta » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:21 pm

This was 7 years ago, but my 2276 was at 15psi around this time. It would idle at 850-900 no problem and remote start works really well with EFI :lol:

https://youtu.be/lcT-cJ_e-YM?t=7s
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buguy
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Re: How much boost is practical for a daily driver

Post by buguy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm

I didn't see a trigger wheel in that video??

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