WBX mild upgrades
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- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:01 am
WBX mild upgrades
Hello guys,
Finally I will put an wbx in my 1303 !
I do have both MV and DJ pistons.
My plan is to use the DJ pistons as the turbo plan seems a bit more difficult.I also have both EFIs (Digijet and Digifant) also a pair of 40 IDFs.
I need your suggestion for a nice setup :
cam choice
keep hydro lifters or not ?
put ratio rockers ?
use EFI or carbs ?
With the above what HP level can I see ?
Also if I use the MV low comp pistons and the EFI what HP can I see with a turbo ???
Thank you all
Jim
Finally I will put an wbx in my 1303 !
I do have both MV and DJ pistons.
My plan is to use the DJ pistons as the turbo plan seems a bit more difficult.I also have both EFIs (Digijet and Digifant) also a pair of 40 IDFs.
I need your suggestion for a nice setup :
cam choice
keep hydro lifters or not ?
put ratio rockers ?
use EFI or carbs ?
With the above what HP level can I see ?
Also if I use the MV low comp pistons and the EFI what HP can I see with a turbo ???
Thank you all
Jim
Jim Andritsakos
1973 1303 German look (project)
1975 ex Bundeswehr vw 181 (FS)
1988 T3 Syncro 16 doubledoor
1990 T3 Syncro panel
1985 T3 Syncro ambulance (FS)
1985 T3 2WD panel (FS)
1973 1303 German look (project)
1975 ex Bundeswehr vw 181 (FS)
1988 T3 Syncro 16 doubledoor
1990 T3 Syncro panel
1985 T3 Syncro ambulance (FS)
1985 T3 2WD panel (FS)
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- Posts: 248
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:37 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
For mine i did the following:
2.1 DJ Engine (rebuilt) fitted with an Eagle hydro cam from CB Perfomance. (The mild one).
Modified 4 into 1 header. (Was using a merged racing header but now running a custom built side facing header).
Dual Twin 40 Dell's, rolling road jetted.
Stock new hydro lifters and rockers.
Dyno's at 122hp on the rolling road.
The torque curve is fantastic.
I did try 1.25 rockers but could not get the geometary correct, so I went back to stock.
I have a friend running a completely stock 2.1 DJ Engine with a 4 into 1 header and a megasquirt FI system.
He puts out 125hp.
Hope that helps.
Iain.
2.1 DJ Engine (rebuilt) fitted with an Eagle hydro cam from CB Perfomance. (The mild one).
Modified 4 into 1 header. (Was using a merged racing header but now running a custom built side facing header).
Dual Twin 40 Dell's, rolling road jetted.
Stock new hydro lifters and rockers.
Dyno's at 122hp on the rolling road.
The torque curve is fantastic.
I did try 1.25 rockers but could not get the geometary correct, so I went back to stock.
I have a friend running a completely stock 2.1 DJ Engine with a 4 into 1 header and a megasquirt FI system.
He puts out 125hp.
Hope that helps.
Iain.
- fastback
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 12:01 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
a stock DJ with a higher duration cam will make probably make up around 150-160 engine HP.
with the right header and tuning.
stock MV with turbo ic EFI and running E-85 makes 300HP around 15 psi
CB has some cams 2253 and 2254 that can be used with hydraulic lifters
i have used these cams with solid type 4 Scat lube-a-lobes and works fine. then u have a bolt on cam/lifter upgrade
with the right header and tuning.
stock MV with turbo ic EFI and running E-85 makes 300HP around 15 psi
CB has some cams 2253 and 2254 that can be used with hydraulic lifters
i have used these cams with solid type 4 Scat lube-a-lobes and works fine. then u have a bolt on cam/lifter upgrade
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- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
Thank you guys
I will put an DJ at first and I wonder which cam I have to pick-up.Also I have a pair of brand new IDF 40s to use.
Turbo will be awesome but have zero experience with them !
Jim
I will put an DJ at first and I wonder which cam I have to pick-up.Also I have a pair of brand new IDF 40s to use.
Turbo will be awesome but have zero experience with them !
Jim
- joop
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 1:25 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
As for cam choice.... It's very personal..... I would say, If you are planning to ride it al lot, go for hydro's.
I bought a 2254 for my puma with DJ engine and also 40IDF's with 34mm venturies with 4into1 exhaust.
Go for the DJ pistons and IDF's, but be warned the intake sound is addictive
Oh, and put in some new rod bolts
Cheers, Joop
I bought a 2254 for my puma with DJ engine and also 40IDF's with 34mm venturies with 4into1 exhaust.
Go for the DJ pistons and IDF's, but be warned the intake sound is addictive
Oh, and put in some new rod bolts
Cheers, Joop
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- Posts: 424
- Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
Y'know, guys, I'm finding that the hydro lifters work perfectly on a lot of non-hydro cams. So far I've run hydros on the CB 2280 (about ten engines like that in circulation now) and a Bugpack 4601, and there is another one I'll be trying out soon. I've seen hydros run on stock Type1 cams, too. They work great on all of those. The thing you have to check out is how a Type1 cam you want to use contacts the small Type4 lifter face, looking out for edge contact that is at an angle to the lobe surface.
So, it ends up being possible to switch out hydros for solids on a lot of "solid" cams. You're not necessarily locked into choosing one or the other, you can switch them out if you use expandable pushrod tubes.
So, it ends up being possible to switch out hydros for solids on a lot of "solid" cams. You're not necessarily locked into choosing one or the other, you can switch them out if you use expandable pushrod tubes.
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- Posts: 245
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:01 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
What cams would get the DJ engine to this sort of HP?fastback wrote:a stock DJ with a higher duration cam will make probably make up around 150-160 engine HP.
with the right header and tuning.
Would an aftermarket split duration cam such as Webcam's 110/163 be a good choice (obviously these would require converting to T1 lifters) given the stock cams are split duration?
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- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:04 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
Has anybody real live experiences using CB cams 2253 and 2254 and how works with stock fuel injection? I´m looking maximum mid and top end performance.
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 pm
Re: WBX mild upgrades
the post title said ,quote,, " A MILD UPGRADE " and You cant have a mid to top end power band with the stock injection, it wont support the fueling required at the rev range needed because for mid/top end you need headwork/ valve sizes increased, revs increased and more camshaft, so you need to re think what you want exactly.mrsmythe wrote:Has anybody real live experiences using CB cams 2253 and 2254 and how works with stock fuel injection? I´m looking maximum mid and top end performance.
Has anybody real live experiences using CB cams 2253 and 2254 and how works with stock fuel injection? I´m looking maximum mid and top end performance.
to go quick , balance everything, abandon the injection for dual 45 carbs because you need to rev it, do the heads full on, T1 lifter conversion and big cam and a merged exhaust.
otherwise use the hydro lifters and build it for torque and mid range, RE READ tencents informative post above, to see that you can use solid cams on hydro lifters, but only certain mild ones, he has the bugpack 4061 working well, but its a torque cam.
forget top and mid range unless you want to go all the way, and that will cost you, in hours AND money.
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- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:04 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
Yes, I have read many times.
CB sells those cams and before trying, I´ll ask are poop or usable using stock fuelinjection?!?
Why bigger valves into wbx heads? I have been told many times that stock 2,1 heads flows already ok even over 150 horsepower engines. True?
CB sells those cams and before trying, I´ll ask are poop or usable using stock fuelinjection?!?
Why bigger valves into wbx heads? I have been told many times that stock 2,1 heads flows already ok even over 150 horsepower engines. True?
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 pm
Re: WBX mild upgrades
[Why bigger valves into wbx heads? I have been told many times that stock 2,1 heads flows already ok even over 150 horsepower engines. True?[/quote]
Its very true, but you want the most mid and top end power , the wasser head has a 3" port runner for a very gentle turn radius if you work them, i have stock valves at 175 hp on carbs, i also have one at 44 x 38 at 210 hp , but bigger is faster, how fast you wanna go?
Its very true, but you want the most mid and top end power , the wasser head has a 3" port runner for a very gentle turn radius if you work them, i have stock valves at 175 hp on carbs, i also have one at 44 x 38 at 210 hp , but bigger is faster, how fast you wanna go?
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- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:04 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
At this moment I have parts ( almost all ) for three engines. One will be stock rebuild for my friend
Another project is get most of stock looking wbx engine and use hydraulic lifters for silent engine and of cuorse no need valve adjusting. Wbx has potential... 2,1L, good flowing heads, using DJ pistons over 10:1 compression... but very mild cam.
So, getting better cam helps engine breathe upper r/mins. Maybe some fuel injection adjustment with lambda gauge and so on.
Off idle torque is not now main thing, only getting drivable engine and maximum power and still using hydraulics and stock fuel injection.
And last engine will be more radical, but first I want finish/drive hydraulic cam version:)
Another project is get most of stock looking wbx engine and use hydraulic lifters for silent engine and of cuorse no need valve adjusting. Wbx has potential... 2,1L, good flowing heads, using DJ pistons over 10:1 compression... but very mild cam.
So, getting better cam helps engine breathe upper r/mins. Maybe some fuel injection adjustment with lambda gauge and so on.
Off idle torque is not now main thing, only getting drivable engine and maximum power and still using hydraulics and stock fuel injection.
And last engine will be more radical, but first I want finish/drive hydraulic cam version:)
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- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
I have a 2316 80x96 from Rocky Jennings. Ported heads, ported plenum, cam upgrade, springs, 1.25 rockers, balanced, etc. It runs killer with the stock (completely) injection. Lots of power compared to the 2.1.
Steve
Steve
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- Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 am
Re: WBX mild upgrades
I ran hydros on the 2254 and the power band is not a good match with the stock EFI's rev limit, it's just getting interesting when you hit the fuel cut. It wants another 1krpm to be at it's best, I could tell. A lot of overlap on it, roughish idle, but the vac signature had such wide variation that I was able to tune the AFM, no lambda, to cruise at 16+:1 but go into 12's under load. Funniest thing was that when I ran 1:1 rockers on intakes and 1.25 on exh, it had killer torque right off idle.
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Re: WBX mild upgrades
I did a LOT of dyno work during my Beetle cup days, we had sealed 1641cc engines and a limited 'Tamper' regime, we found 3 hp with that same rocker set up 1.11 on intakes and the factory 1.25 on exhausts only. we had a controlled exhaust, but everyone was porting the collector.
Steve, cool spec, your build must be a torque monster rather than a revver, is it in a bus or a bug?
Steve, cool spec, your build must be a torque monster rather than a revver, is it in a bus or a bug?