Opinion for this combo

[profe]

Sill with some doubts

I have the AMC heads at home. I will set new valves

But..... too many crossed words about piston brands. Please help
- Should I try continue with the OEM Mahle (2.1 european 82 kw with CR 10,5:1) with a CB 2280. It will work this couple? (OEM fuel injection, exhaust and distributor). I can get second hand Mahle pistons from a friend (I just need one, have instruments to measure weights and dimensions to choose the most similar to the others).
- Should I buy a QSC 96 mm set and a new rods connecting set + machined work to fit the pin in the right height? Wich rod set and piston rings?.Of course keep buying the CB 2280 and keeping OEM fuel injection, exhaust and distributor. I look for a CR like OEM (10,5:1 in my van)
- Should I buy an AA 96.5 mm set becouse this ones supossed to have the right piston pin distance so I could keep OEM rod connection set?
- Do anybody bought the JE forged pistons kit for vanagon (Gowesty specs) directly from them?.

Please I will aprecciate too much your responses of this items (rest parts as oil pump, lifters, radiator, new valves.... I belive have decided already). By the way, should I change guide valves and seats If I fit a TRW set or I could keep the ones fitted in the new AMC set?. I thougt it was enough grinding a bit valves/seats.

Thanks in advance

[profe]

After measuring my OEM DJ Mahle pistons, I got 35.5 cc in dish volume -instead of 47 of the best aftermarket I found-. It gets me a real 10,2:1 static CR. As we hava 95 octane and 98 octane street petrol, no problem with high CR.
Measure pics in following link:
http://www.furgovw.org/index.php?topic=206719.60
So piston, decided: Kolbenschmidt 94 mm OEM (500 euros set pistons & barrels & rings & pins).

My trouble now is I have differents opinions about forged rods. SCAT emailed me telling no problem with bigger machined pin bore for fitting a 24 mm pin. Otherwise, CB doesn't recomend me do this due a future failure problems. No doubt about both answer -they are different products- but I want to know if samebody did this remachined pin bore with any H beam forged rods -I know it's been done with I beam-. Please any expierience?

I still continue with the idea of removing OEM cam and fit an CB 2280. Does any of you have done only this change in the engine -rest stoc-. I know from this forum this works when you change big bore pistons, manifold, exhaust, .... etc. But do anybody install just the CB 2280 without any other change in the wasserboxer?
Thanks

[joop]

I think the cb rods are ok and they come with arp bolts
These have been bushed to 24mm
STD rods are ok but expensive to rebuild (stretchbolts) and scat is also a good option.
Good choice Profe to buy a new KS set
I did order a cb2280 but did not installed it yet (for a DH 1900 engine) so can't tell you....
The guys in usa have some big advantage pricewise
Look at the bill below.....

bill.JPG

At my door I had to pay an extra $80.00 tax
The hydro's are from a german firebrigade T3 engine wich I bought for the heads (new heads on it) the car had only 90000km on it but the guy was tired of the WBX and we did put in a 2nd hand subaru 2.0L wich was bad also.... (crank bearings) Now another one has to go in....
His first T3 had an audi 5 cyl

[profe]

Thanks for answering.
The pic with 16 rods, are they remachined to 24 mm?. If any of them have been installed in a vanagon, was it a long time ago?. I am confuse becouse one CB seller wrote me this answer ( I refer about cast I beam or H beam options, both) :
"I do not think that there is enough material, to machine for a 24 mm wrist pin. The rod will be too weak. Remember that the bore of the rod is larger and has to be bushed. The bushing is also just larger than 24mm so the piston can move.
If that is what you want, I see a potential failure about to happen and money wasted."
Clear enough, doesn't it?

[tencentlife]

The CB Unitech basic I-beams have lots of meat for larger pin bushings, I use those all the time. I've also had Scat do the same to their I-beams for me.

Running the 2280 with 10.2:1 CR, you want to calculate your actual compression based on the cam's intake closing event.

Yeah, you Europeans pay a huge premium for US parts, I don't know why you bother when there are so many quality parts available in the Eurozone. Base prices are often higher there, but transport and importation costs swamp any savings you found by buying US.

[profe]

Your responses always make a smile in my face, tc!. I enjoy learning from your expierience and knowledge
Rod doubts solved. I will order a I beam instead of OEM or forged.

Running the 2280 with 10.2:1 CR, you want to calculate your actual compression based on the cam's intake closing event.

Any help with this?. Wich simulator use for calculate this value?. I think I will find myself intake closing angles of both cams easily.

Yeah, you Europeans pay a huge premium for US parts, I don't know why you bother when there are so many quality parts available in the Eurozone.

Strange, isn't it?. Maybe "google" tends to show first USA suppliers than european ... or maybe petrol vanagon are huge scuccesful in USA than in Europe -here people prefer diesel engines-. Otherwise I can't understand any word in German, and the good ones webs are in this language. The only difficult point in USA is DJ engine.

The CB Unitech basic I-beams have lots of meat for larger pin bushings, I use those all the time. I've also had Scat do the same to their I-beams for me.

By the way, do you have a feedback of maximun milleage done with any of your engines (more or less). I guess even satisffied customers put in contact to you sometimes

Gracias! ("thanks" in spanish)

[profe]

I found this information (please correct me if wrong)

The following specs were found in either Bill Fisher's "How to Hotrod Volkswagens" or from the cam manufactures. (I hope this chart is readable)

Cam Lift Duration Lob Center IO IC EO EC Overlap

Stock .322/.310 .224.5/.228.5 107.6 4 32 41 1 5

Engle W-100 .383 .236 108 14 42 50 6 20

Web 86 .358 .234 108 9 45 45 9 18

CB Cheater .394 .222 107 34 60 68 26 60

With http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
Wich value to put in"Boost pressure".Within it I got 8.11 DCR for CB 2280 (Inlet close 60º) and 8.74 DCR for stock cam (Inlet close at 48º from Brick yard tech specs). Have sense these resoults?. Less DCR with the cheater than stock?
Please educate me.

[mm289]

Hey Profe,

great thread and thanks to all the others who have answered questions

I am a newbie on here and about to rebuild my first WBX, got it on the engine stand last night, strip down starts tomorrow, so all this information is real useful.

Feel at home with a US based forum though as my other car is a '66 Mustang Convertible with a rebuilt and warmed up 289 cu small block V8

I am based in the UK, so just wondered for the other Europeans like Profe where you get your parts from.

Seen CSP and Ahnendorp in Germany, who are you guys using?

Cheers,

MM

[joop]

Welcome MM,

Indeed CSP and Ahnendorp, but also http://www.buschef.de/ and http://www.kaefer-co.de/ and at my previous employer (MAN/VW dealer)


My T3 has a 292 hydrocam. Made a trip of 200Km yesterday and it pulled a smile on my face again. It runs real strong after 4000 rpm (it has the DJ pistons). Inlet closes at 73deg IIRC. Crusing at 130-150kmh is real fun, but for a heavy bus I would not install a bigger cam (this one did ahnendorp recomend) for my work I do my travelling in a VW Touran TDI 6speed (60- 70000km a year) and this is the total opposit of my T3
With the higher DJ static CR I could get back some, but not all, of the low end torque you lose with a bigger cam. You can compensate for the shorter compression stroke with increased static CR, but you will also have a shorter power stroke with a longer duration cam due to an earlier exhaust opening. You effectively have a shorter stroke engine, which is also like a smaller engine, at low speeds before you reach the rpms and air speed which your valve events become efficient. I do not know the stock cam specs but for the cb2280 it closes at 37deg with a running clearance of .004 With hydros it is a bit more. I would say... measure your stock DJ cam and you will know. The BAS cam is also suitable for stock engines with FI

Joop

[mm289]

Thanks joop, will have to practice my german!

Just started a thread over on 80-90 UK site describing my 2.1 rebuild if anyone is interested in following it.

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=80287

mm

[profe]

Thanks for your responses. Sorry I was a bit busy these days so I delay connecting the forum again.

I measured my crank journals. I did it several times and several angles in differents sections. This is what I get:

It seems I havae a blue dot crank size. Do I need to machine the journals and fit oversized bearings or can I keep the crank as it's now with a standar main bearings set?.

By the other hand, I am thinking in the possibility of H beam forged rods. I was thinking if this option need to counterweight and dynamic balanced the crank-rods-pistons or it's not neccessary. If the engine was a single, of course this must be done -if you want to do a nice job- but I am a bit confused with the boxer. I think static balance is not going to change if I fit lighter rods but not sure if primary or secondary armonics -moments- will be affected and the engine will loose its original smooth way. What do you think about it?.

Of course I know with a bit I beam lighter rods it seems no problems but H forged ones are 125 gr lighter from stock -per rod-.

[profe]

Just when I decided ordering the CB 2280, I realized is not so easy -thanks tc-.

My cam gear is "+2". As far as I saw, there are no differents gear sizes for the CB. Do anybody know if that means I need a special gear or I can put the CB 2280 with the CB cam gear?.

Here I put the pics

[joop]

cb cam gears come in one size and "fits" always
But I use an old T1 gear most of the time, it rotates much better....
Haven't had any problems with the aftermarket cam gears T1/WBX and T4 from CB

[buildabiggerboxer]

More and more, i'm using stock timing gears as im fed up with the 'one size fits all b/s', they're all too slack...

[tencentlife]

Yup, every so-called "std." aftermarket gear I have ever handled (and I've tried quite a few) is way under standard, calling them a -2 would be generous, -3 or 4 is more like it. Sloppy as hell, completely unacceptable in most wbx cases. Like many things, it looks like the mainline VW aftermarket vendors have the same exact part blister-packed on their own piece of cardboard.

I went to cutting 3-rivet gears off old T1 camshafts and modding them to fit in the wbx on aftermarket cams. Then I had one of the mag gears do a meltdown on a 2k mile engine, requiring me to completely rebuild it (half the teeth gone and everything full of mag powder), so no more of those for me.

Berg is the only vendor I have been able to find that sells offsize gears, and like everything Berg they are expensive (while being nothing special, in this case at least). I keep the range of -1 to +2 on hand for my builds. Their offsizes are OK, but even their std. gear is undersize, although not as bad as the others I've tried. it's a completely different casting than their offsizes and leaves a big sizing hole in the line-up.

I hate cam gears.