Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bearings

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3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:37 pm

Fastback

I am not running a wasserboxer crank. I am running a Bugpack type 4 mains flanged crank. If I could use the Vanagon 2.1 liter three piece thrust and bearing, i would. Do you have suggestions on how to use a vanagon 2.1 liter 3 piece thrust bearing with a Bugpack flanged???

I thought about running the Vanagon vrank and an adapter flywheel, but it will cost about $195 to wedgemate, $175 for the flywheel, and $650 for the crank. Thats over $1000 just to take a step backwards.

The type 4 split bearing wont take the abuse....Its that simple....Its an all Aluminum bearing, and its a piece of crap...

Splitting a vanagon rear bearing would be much better because it is steel backed....

Another scenario is adding weld to the rear main and cutting it for a 2.2 Chrysler thrust bearing....... That way, bearings only cost $35 a set and a metal backed trimetal Clevites. Silverlite type 4 bearings are not for 300 horse motors.

Here is a picture of the Vanagon bearings

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifie ... 681729.jpg

Splitting the vanagon rear bearing and installing a center thrust, would work. Then if one wanted to use the thrust shims with a Bugpack crank, one could see if they fit with a .006 tolerance etc....

The Vanagon 2.1 liter rear bearing looks like it could be split easily .I will have to check with an old bearing. I will see if I can load in the crank with a split vanagon bearing and split thrust shims. Hmmmmm sounds way less expensive.....Then its just bore the remaining journals for Clevite bearings (2.2 liter)

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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Steve Arndt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:55 pm

I would try to avoid splitting the bearing that was designed to be full circle. The bearing won't be round, or as strong, after cutting in half. That is why the Vanagon original design is best. It is a flanged crank, big T4 size bearing on that journal, and a full circle non split bearing with steel thrusts.

You could sell your Bugpack crank/flywheel combo and come out almost even.

3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:17 pm

Yaaaa! In some cases that makes sense. Just use the wasserboxer crank and offset grind it to 80mm stroke. I guess there is a flywheel that is floating around for $159 that is C/M with a 200mm clutch. I am wondering then, can I just run a dowelled Vanagon flywheel or do I need an aftermarket flwheel with dowells and wedgemate.

A welded up counterweighted wasserboxer crank is $500 bucks....

I actually have a stroke up 90mm wasserboxer crank. All I would need then is a flywheel, and one 6.352 rod. Its not cracked yet, and would last a season. Then just shift to an Avery block and use the 88m type 4 crank with new cyclinders etc...Wwow, maybe I should use the wasser boxer crank and leave the bores alone. I could just limit the revs to 7000....

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Piledriver
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Piledriver » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:48 pm

The extra dowels may reduce the strength of the T4/WBX flange area according to a few folks, and it makes sense.
The better solution is the 5 shouldered "ream to fit" uber bolts.

I imagine that combined with wedgemating that would make for about as bulletproof a combination as it gets, if you even need to go there.

Careful with who you order the Chinese CrMo flywheel from...
They have had serious issues as to fit (loose or tight on crank snout) and bolt hole alignment. (isn't)

You might be ahead finding a 914 flywheel and modifying it to suit.
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Steve Arndt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:41 pm

No dowels. Use the ream to fit bolts. The flywheel is reamed to fit the oversize shoulder on the bolt. This acts to locate and dowel the flywheel to the crank flange bolts without weakening it.

The T4/wasser flange has no known power/torque limits yet discovered.

3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:44 pm

Naaaaah, I will send the case off to have it linebored for Chrysler bearings and a type 4 rear bearing. Screw the wassser boxer crank for now.

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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Steve Arndt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:17 pm

Hold up. You said you had an oxyboxer? That already has a T4 "rear" bearing. It is the front actually, not the "rear". Front of car is front of engine.

3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:58 pm

Yes I know the wasserboxer crank has a type 4 60mm main journal O/D. Who sells ream to fit bolts? Are you suggesting that the wedgemating isnt needed? In addition, do these ream to fit Bolts work appropriately with a stock vanagon Flywheel? I have three Vanagon flywheels. I am thinking $500 for a DMS stroker 82mm with VW journals then...I could save the 88mm for an Avery case....

The Avery Case will take Chrysler Bearings without shims or welding....

It will also take a 88mm stroke without clearancing the rod bolts or camshaft...

http://www.averysaircooled.com/partsgui ... bore/3.jpg

The good news is I got my Mendeoal MD4s /2D back from sammy at Rancho. He did the mainshaft bearing mod, changed a shift fork, added C/M sincros, and changed 4th gear for me. He even didpped the case and put cool Rancho stickers on it....

Maybe I should stop with the OXYboxer case and buy an Avery case. I am $500 into the wassercase. I will take $700 for it and the 76mm crank for $150.

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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Piledriver » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:18 pm

You get the ream to fit "god grade" flywheel bolts from BAS or CSP. (different grades there, too)
I don't know if anyone in the US stocks them, but they are small so shipping should not be brutal.
They aren't even stupid expensive.

The holes in the flywheel are what get reamed to fit..

If you want/need a forged steel FW, modified 914 or aftermarket are the choices.

Depending on transmission choice, you may be able to upsize the 914 FW to 228mm, IIRC Wally did something along those lines using a bus FW. A 914 or Vanagon FW might fit in a Mendeola with just the 914 ring gear turned back... No idea.

I'm sure Kennedy could set you up with a forged 228 pronto, even dual disc.

The ring gear and offset are ~the same on all 12v ACVW flywheels, but the 228mm PP hits std starters and the std T1 bell housing, self supporting starter (automatic or aftermarket gear reduction) required.
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3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:15 pm

I already had a Vanagon flywheel 228mm bolted up to the mendeola. I think I had to do just a little clearancing for the clutch assembly. I also had a subaru 3.3 liter with kennedy adapter bolted up....There are no issues...

This whole deal is just BS when it comes to bearings...

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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Piledriver » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:49 am

Life would be a lot simpler if you stuffed that EZ33 back in and stuck a blower on it with E85... :twisted:

There are good reasons for you to go with t4/dodge main bearings on your new block if that's an option, even for #1 if you went with the late WBX thrust setup...
I wish that was an option on the T4 & WBX blocks.

The T4 mains dried up for awhile, and it was a PITA for awhile.
Will probably happen again.
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pocketrocket
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by pocketrocket » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:54 pm

Sometimes its better to stay clear of some jobs as I have seen over the years. Two many cooks ruin the soup. I have helped racers with the needed machine work on their Oxyboxer blocks for years now. Their is no need to weld up the flywheel end of the block to run a flanged crank seal. I have done over a dozen seal mods for flanged cranks in waterboxer blocks. I run a scat flanged crank in my 2.9 block. As far as the Chrysler 2.2 center thrust bearing its by far the best way to go. To do the bronze thrust shims you will need a jig with drill bushings to get the holes drilled straight and another to get the the holes tapped and in the right locations. It took me on a cnc lathe about 4 hrs to make the set up to do the bronze shims, I also made a fixture to hold the shims to shave them to get the end play spot on, but again I would run the 2.2 center 1.094 wide thrust over all other ways. Sometimes the cost of having someone help you do things right is worth every penny. Thanks Rocky

3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:17 am

2.51877...Are you shimming the center main bearing or using brass? I should just adapt my Portatool for 2.51877, then just lathe to fit the Bronze bushings.Set the thrust cutter to Chrysler O/D specs. Then just cut the shims..... BMW bearings cant be any better than Clevites... Shoot, I am thinking just a type 1 crank and cutting the C/R back to 8.5 to 1. These Steve Tims ported 910s are brutal with 12 to 1...And just breaks poop.

Sammy just completely rebuilt my Mendeola.....Now I have to get 26 inch tires....

3literboy
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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by 3literboy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Ok, I went to Northwest Connecting rod to see if he could do the Chrysler bearing mod. He had to turn it down because he swamped...

Anyways, I wonder what pocket Rocket will do the case for 2.2 liter bearings for. I have the bearings, and Custom Crank in Tacoma can do the Crank mod..

I am thinking of just going back to a VW crankshaft with wedgemate...

The 88mm stroke with tpe 4 mains is way to much of a hassle to mess with...

I am just thinking of lineboring to .060 and using an 82mm VW journal with a type 1 bearing.

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Re: Oxyboxer?????i2.2 liter Chrysler bearings or Toyota bear

Post by Steve Arndt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:01 pm

Either way, you won't go wrong with Rocky's work if you go that route.
I have one of his 96x80 wasser's in my syncro van.
s

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