WBX into 1303 build

Here's the place for info on converting to a Type V motor!
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

hellow all. time for my second build thread. after having issues with my type 4 swap that i did in my super that i have on MS1 fuel and spark, ive decided to go to the dark side of the vw flat 4 family. after tons of reading about the WBX motor, ive more or less convinced myself that ill be happier going with a WBX. ive sourced a 2.1 WBX in great shape. i also bought another 2.1 that came with the heads off. my overall plan of attack is to build one up thats turbo'd on MS for fuel and spark. ive read that in stock form, the WBX responds to boost well. im planning to document this process well so others can use it for inspiration/ guide.

so the first problem at hand is....what radiator to use. ive done a ton of looking around at different radiators on ebay and what not. since i have a super beetle and i have the lower vents in the front apron, i wanna make best use of them with what radiator i end up with. tonight i found out that Porsche makes a "add on" 3rd radiator for a 911. i guess it comes stock in a 911 gt3 rs. it looks to be about the same dimensions as the vents in the front apron. im thinking that will it be enough to cool the motor, with the coolent going front to back, its gotta dissipate the heat some moving all that way, so the need for a huge radiator would not be as needed, but i know theory will prove me wrong. anyway its a thought. whats your thoughts on it? heres some pics i found of the radiator im talking of
Image

and here it is on the car. the radiator in the middle of the front bumper
Image

also im thinking of using 1 1/2" exhaust pipe for the plumbing the coolent from the front to the back.
User avatar
Steve C
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 12:01 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by Steve C »

Hi

A Porsche radiator will be exy. There are many other radiators that you can use that don't cost a bomb. I used an Audi 200 radiator as I already had a shroud for it, it was a tad too wide but worked out OK in the end.

1 1/2 exhaust pipe works well.

Steve
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

i found one on ebay for $127 shipped. my other option was using a 1/2 size civic radiator considering ebay has aluminum ones for like $60 shipped. lol
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

well i made an offer on ebay for a porsche center radiator for $90 shipped, and i got it. soi guess ill begoing with this one and im hoping it will provide enough cooling.
Passatman
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:01 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by Passatman »

Hey westypoo i would use that porsche center radiator with another just to be sure. Build it similar to that of the watercooled porsche cooling system.

I think their is an alfa romeo radiator that could work well, i don't remember codes or any thing for it but the guy who is using it in his super also lives in australia.

If i can find the thread again i will post the info here. I too have a 2.1ltr MV waterboxer to go into my standard beetle and i am thinking of fashioning the cooling system similar to the porsche system. Thanks for the diagram on the porsche setup.
Passatman
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:01 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by Passatman »

Ok i found the pics of the radiator for you. It's a alfa 33 series 1/2 radiator.

Image
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

ya if its not enough ill surly get one. your welcome (thanks good ol google) lol. ya im super excited about this build. ready for some good power that i can pound on all day at a track day, and still drive it home with no worries.
riseabove
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by riseabove »

do you have a build thread somewhere of this ? it is of GREAT interest for me as im in the process of doing the same convertion :)
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

this is my build thread. lol. i had a build thread for putting a type 4 motor in my bug, but now im doing one now for putting a WBX into my bug. just getting parts rounded up then ill start posting pics and what not of my work and process of doing it. ive done all the reading i can about putting a wbx into a beetle. i havent found much about putting a 2.1 into a beetle cause with the 2.1, it has a totally different cooling setup than a 1.9. so i know ill run into some sort of an issue. gowesty.com sells a really nice machined metal thermostat housing, but its pricy at $186. so only time will tell how it all plays out.
User avatar
Steve C
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 12:01 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by Steve C »

Hi

I don't know if you've seen this post I made many years ago when I owned a WBX 1302.

Wasserboxer in a Beetle.

The Wasserboxer has received some bad press for headstud problems; coolant leaks and assorted other woes. These problems seem to occur when proper VW servicing techniques are not used, VW coolant and distilled water.

The Wasserboxer motor in my VW Beetle has been looked after as far correct coolant is concerned; I also use distilled water mixed with genuine VW coolant. I fitted an Oettinger 85 thermostat instead of the standard 87. These don’t seem to be available anymore so I have modified a Mercedes one to fit. The top part of the thermostat is the same as the VW one, but the lower bypass part has a larger diameter flange. This can easily be made the correct diameter by first marking out the correct diameter circle with a pair of dividers and the grind the flange down to the marked circle, it doesn’t need to a perfect circle. I also got rid of water-cooled oil-cooler as I have heard that they can fail. I’m running an air cooled oil cooler with a Setrab thermo block at the front of the radiator.

As far as the rest of the motor goes it is extremely reliable, I give my bug heaps. I have bent one Scat pushrod (I’m now running Berg ones) and had 2 water pumps fail in about 100,000 Ks since 1988 and have had a few coolant hoses fail. My bug is also in constant state of improvement, so some things are always changing.

The Wasserboxers use 2 styles of cooling systems, basically the 1.9 and 2.1 litre style. I prefer the 2.1 style.

Fitting the motor is much the same as fitting a type 4 motor, same style of flywheel. The thermostat housing which sits above # 3 exhaust port needs to have some body clearancing. The water hose that runs from the water pump to the thermostat housing needs to be modified at the water pump end. It basically would run straight through the left-hand rear bumper bracket. Any Beetle exhaust can be used, #1 & # 4 exhaust flanges need to be rotated 90. In the engine bay I used basically the whole Wasserboxer cooling system and condensed it to fit. You will need a steel coolant ring main as the plastic one cant be shortened easily.

The coolant runs to and from the front of the car via 1.5-inch stainless steel tubes. These follow the chassis bolts along the bottom of the heater channels. I have just upgraded my radiator with a modified Ford Transit radiator. After some gentle prompting from a fellow list user MARTINSR, yesterday I went out and bought an after market thermo fan from Davies Craig http://www.daviescraig.com.au/. It’s meant to be used for a 5 litre V8 and pumps 2120 CFM, so far its working really well, we are having 40  + days down here at the moment. I previously used a BMW radiator and Audi 100 thermo fan. Cool air is brought into the radiator through an A/C louvered front apron. I removed the deformation plate at the front of the chassis to allow more air in. I had to also remove the spare wheel well and I just left the rounded edge for a bit of extra strength, I supplemented the spare wheel wells strength with angle steel. My radiator is around 550 mm across and 450 mm deep on the cooling surface, it’s actually a little wider where the tanks are on the side. The radiator sits on a U shaped holder right down on the chassis and comes very close to the under bonnet and leans forward about 5. I fabricated a sheetmetal alloy housing to guide the cooling air in and let the heated air exit over the front end. I basically used some angle aluminum for the edges and then filled this in with very thin aluminum sheet. In case you hadn’t already realised my bug is a super. I have seen radiators fitted to standard bugs but I have no experience with this. My spare wheel sits on top my fuel tank on a bracket attached to the strut brace.

Original heater channels were retained and warm air is directed from a Toyota troop carrier heater core under the rear seat opposite the battery, to the interior via early Audi 100 brake cooling fan on the right hand side and via the troopy fan on the left hand side. I have used the rear seat heater cable to operate heater shut off valve.

My Kombi motor was purchased new in 1988 and is 2.1 litre its DJ engine number type 10.5:1 compression, 112 BHP type. I original ran the motor with dual webbers Berg cam. In preparation for a turbo the motor was been decompressed to 8.0:1 and the cam changed back to standard. 1.4 berg rockers are used.

I’m using an after market EFI system with the factory manifold, the injectors in the stock manifold sit in a horizontal plane so the side panels in engine bay that the engine tray seal fits in need to be modified or removed.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

Ya I've seen your post when browsing around. You have more detailed pics of your install? Ya that's why I've chosen to go with a WBX is cause of the reliability of it. I do plan on using all recommended methods for coolend service so I can get the maxium life outta the motor and head gaskets. I'm super excited. Mine will be on Megasquirt EFI controlling both fuel and spark as I plan on turboing it. I plan on getting CB fuel rails for my motor as well cause they will allow me to clean things up a bit.
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

so today my porsche "center" radiator showed up at my door step. should work. heres the pics with measurements as well. only thing is that the inlet/outlet are smaller in diamater. hoping it wont kick me in the butt in the end. well on to the pics...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
AMBROSIA
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:37 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by AMBROSIA »

I doubt that rad will be enough to cool things.
I run a golf gti rad and stainless flexi pipes and the combo gives excellent cooling including cruising 100+ on hot days.
Image
Image
Image
Image

I've also run a 1302 with a wbx with a front mounted rad.
Have a look here for a nice 1303 setup.
http://www.gerrelt.nl/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=82
westypoo
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by westypoo »

Ya I don't think it will be enough either, but I'll surly try. Never truly know till I try it. Also I've seen that link as well, super nice wright up. And I've seen your huge build thread over on volkszone witch is also an excellent one as well.
AMBROSIA
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:37 am

Re: WBX into 1303 build

Post by AMBROSIA »

And I've seen your huge build thread over on volkszone witch is also an excellent one as well.
Thanks, just glad to see you made the right engine choice :wink:
I know someone who runs a custom rad under the rear wing using a duct system that works quite well so perhaps you could use a combination of rads.
One idea I had was to fit two motorcycle rads under the back seat, cutting and dropping the floorpan each side to create scoops.
The air would pass through the rads and be ducted out through the bulkhead.
Downside would be potential ground clearance and excess noise with the fans going, but it would mean no external signs of the beast within.
Post Reply