Aftermarket conrods with 24mm pin

[AMBROSIA]

I'm having trouble locating a suitable set of rods for my current engine build.
It will be running a stock wbx crank with DJ pistons but the cam/carb setup pushes the rev range beyond the stock rods limit.
Ideally I need forged I beams chromoly, 3/8 bolts with stock wbx 24mm ends.
Anyone know of a uk supplier or someone that can machine 24mm small ends on a set or T1 rods?

Ta,

Iain.

[Piledriver]

SCAT I beams work, have 3/8" ARP bolts (ARP2000 optional) and have plenty of meat in the small end for 24mm pins.

They used to be willing to set them up with 24mm pin for a reasonable additional price.

[buildabiggerboxer]

3/8 bolts are only for 8000 rpm motors, they need considerable clearance work compared to 5/16 bots, I have race rods made here in the UK by Farndon, they have the drawings for mine on file but they too need case and cam clearancing work for the big end bolts, they are cosworth spec, they will quote you, but best be seated when they do so, Stock Wasser rods are good for over 7 thousand rpm with new 2.1 bolts torqued to .004" stretch, which is somewhere between 29/32ft/lb, my development motor shifts gears at 7200, do You really need more?
5/16 ARP T1 bolts are another option, you won't break them.
I can't recommend any shop work these days, stuff goes on holiday for too long and returns worse then when it went, only one firm can do rod work, that is Gosnays in Romford, but I now prefere to buy new and ready to go, it's cheaper and less stressfu than sending stuff off by post for a long holiday with no postcards, new imported Scat rods factory equipped for 24 pins would be preferable to all the @@@@ ups I've had done and the time and cash wasted, I also run T1 CB race rods in my OKRASA 2.5 with the bush honed out to 24mm, they are thin walled as such, but work fine and give no problems, Jim Calvert brought mine in from the states, clearancing again needed on the cam,, I've also heard of bushless small ends now being raced with graphite coated wrist pins, both these last options are best left to high maintenance race motors.

[AMBROSIA]

Thanks buildabiggerboxer.

I'm getting confused as to which option to take now
Jim at stateside is undertaking the machine work and is looking at machining a set of cb rods to 24mm as you have suggested.
The engine build is nothing outlandish but I do plan to red line at 6500k.
I've heard so many people say the stock wbx rod is the weak point in any higher rev application i'm surprised to hear what you say.
If you have real world experience of stock rods holding up to 7k then this would easily suit my needs.

[Piledriver]

It is extremely common for a stock 2.1 to develop low oil pressure and very soon thereafter ventilate the block with a rod.
This is typical by 100K miles, sometimes far less.

The VW rods big ends get egg shaped and things soon go all pear shaped.
This...Running at standard highway speeds, never seeing over ~5K.
The bolts get the blame, but any long used 2.1 wbx rods will tell the real tale when checked for ovality.
This generally doesn't happen significantly on the 1.9/69mm stroke,
76mm seems just a touch too much for the stock forging in stock long term Vanagon (read: severe) service.

Do NOT waste money tarting up stock rods.

You will spend less/get more starting with something made from 4K steel.
The 3/8" bolts are no issue with stock 76mm stroke in a wbx case, but are overkill.
OTOH they are standard on the SCAT ibeams.

Tencentlife lit up the path here years ago.

[AMBROSIA]

You will spend less/get more starting with something made from 4K steel.
The 3/8" bolts are no issue with stock 76mm stroke in a wbx case, but are overkill.
OTOH they are standard on the SCAT ibeams.

Jim has recommended scat ibeams with genuine arp bolts, so he's on the same page.
He also suggests a web 86A cam but I have yet to confirm any clearance issues.
I presume it's primarily the thrust bearing lip that causes rod bolt interference.

He also has my stock wbx rods which where going to be checked for roundness and machined as required, so I could still go this route with new stretch bolts as they where available the last time I checked.

My gut is telling me that stock rods have such a hard life lugging a van around it's a bit much to expect from them, plus they may have already done 150,000 miles!

[Piledriver]

The std 1.9 or T1 "non-stretch" replacement bolts are preferred.
They are also not one time use.

I would still not waste money on stock rods unless you are building it for a 69 crank, dubious even then.

I'd say they would be fine for a bug or buggy install, but the SCAT rods can likely be had w/mods for little more (or even far less, depending on locale) than having the stockers done properly by a reputable local shop.

My wallet got deeply brutalized when I took my cb Unitech Ibeam rods (the early good ones) to the recommended (and possibly only) place in DFW that apparently still "does" rods, with I had known about the scat rods (esp the longer versions) then.

Its amazing how much some shops charge for what is actually a <5 minute operation.
SCATs charges are fair, but they finish machine rods in house all day long, so you don't have to pay for alleged hours of "setup" and excessive shipping fees for rod bushings, as they likely have rows of bins full of them.

[AMBROSIA]

My stock rods have a set of low mileage 1.9 bolts fitted from the original build.
I trust the guy doing the machining as he's been building top end vw engines for years, it's why the machine work went to him.
As to the cost, with shipping from USA, using genuine arp bolts and all the machine work, it was never going to be cheap.
Are Scat made in the USA or farmed out to China?

[Piledriver]

From what I understand most if not all SCAT rods are forged in China and finish machined in the USA.

The Chinese have been working metal for around 4000 years, so they are perfectly capable of getting it right.

[subwoofer]

If they want to... I have heard quite a few horror stories about very nice prototypes that turns into lemons come full scale production time.

[AMBROSIA]

Provided SCAT maintain a diligent quality control they should be ok.
China can indeed manufacture to a high standard provided the buyers don't punish them on margins as my company do.
That's when the corner cutting starts and it's the brand that ultimately suffers as EMPI demonstrated.
My guy says he chucks the supplied bolts as they are not genuine arp.

[buildabiggerboxer]

The 2.1 rods do indeed have a hard time, but the signs are there to be read, past usable life 2.1 rods will have fretted caps, if they fall off the rod bolt splines almost under their own weight, they are past it and for the bin. Another killer of race Wassers using German heads, is undersized inlet guides, they come loose and BANG, only on the inlets, they are typically .0025" under, usually race heads have the guides changed for port work anyway, but beware the shifting inlet guides if using German heads at over the stock performance ceiling, I use scat T1 inlet guides.

[AMBROSIA]

Thanks for all the info guy's, I really appreciate it and your time.
bbb - I'm running AMC heads that I have only mildly ported as fundamentally they are a good design from what I have read and will flow for the HP i'm hoping for.
All I have done is remove casting marks, blended the bowls, taken down the chambers around the valves to smooth into the seats and matched the inlet ports to the manifolds.
I'm hoping there is enough meat on the seats for a 3 angle job but apparently sometimes they cut too deep putting in the 45.
The build is documented on another site http://www.volkshub.com/thehub/showthre ... gine-build
My guy is trying to source suitable stainless valves but may have trouble locating wbx size stems.

[jackstraw]

I tend to stay away from rebuilding a stock rod for (my) engines
The process makes them shorter. A few thou is still a few thou.

[buildabiggerboxer]

Thanks for all the info guy's, I really appreciate it and your time.
bbb - I'm running AMC heads that I have only mildly ported as fundamentally they are a good design from what I have read and will flow for the HP i'm hoping for.
All I have done is remove casting marks, blended the bowls, taken down the chambers around the valves to smooth into the seats and matched the inlet ports to the manifolds.
I'm hoping there is enough meat on the seats for a 3 angle job but apparently sometimes they cut too deep putting in the 45.
The build is documented on another site http://www.volkshub.com/thehub/showthre ... gine-build
My guy is trying to source suitable stainless valves but may have trouble locating wbx size stems.

A wee guide and lots of choices , valve seat work is the key, Wassers respond well to valve sinking, the downside is it costs compression pressure, first off, they are tight on installed valve spring height, roughly 1.4", the performance way to a win win fix is to sink the valve .080", I won't go onto a porting and seat flow waffle, but it's the key to big gains from seat profiling for out and out motors, sinking also fixes the spring height problem back to a workable T1 spec enabling T1 hardware and geometry to work, it also gains piston to valve clearance, but all the chamber matching and profiling costs a deal of compression, it just costs cash to gain it back, another story,, A compromise is to cut the spring seats or use a higher spring height retainer such as bergs 281A, these gain .150" spring installed height.
Conversion valve guides are available for the exhausts at 8mm stem, but again, light stainless valves cost compression as they are dish heads, mine are made by Paul Ivey and trim off stock 20 odd grams tho much bigger, but the stockers can still flow 170hp ,but need some valve spring pressure to go over 6000 rpm. I use 175 lb installed and 285 nose for 7000rpm with stock jobs. One thing is the Febi lifters are heavy and need shorter push rods, a solid conversion on stock hydros is my way if you don't need a T1 lifter conversion, lighter than solid T4 and better oiling, and the stock length steel p/rods can stay, they are fine at 6000 rpm.