Engine build almost complete

Here's the place for info on converting to a Type V motor!
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fastback
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by fastback » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:36 pm

yes , due to the mushroom style lifters.
but that machining of the bore tops can be done with garage tools

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:40 pm

but that machining of the bore tops can be done with garage tools
Shame this build is in my living room :lol:

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:48 pm

AMBROSIA wrote:
you can convert to type 1 lifters
i use some German alu bushings that presses in the WBX/type4 bores , and does not need any reaming afterwards
I did look at getting the case machined for T1 lifters but the cost was too high.
Now that you mention this I do remember reading this somewhere as an option.
Do you also have to machine down the bore tops for lobe clearance?
Yes, 1mm spare clearance over the nose, plus a bit for any possible bigger cam upgrades in the future, web 86c shown with clearanced journals for 86mm stroke, I don't turn clearance cams any more, I now notch them, more work and faffing, but stronger.
Watch out for the short w/boxer installed valve heights if your thinking 1.4 rockers, it will need minimum 1.55 installed height... Piston/ valve clearance should be ok, usually is with stock rod length.
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AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:58 pm

I had JC at stateside check and setup the spring/retainer combo for 1.4 rockers with the 86a cam, but he did say it was on the limit.
TBH sticking with the 1.25 would be fine as they are actually 1.3 in reality.
I did check the valve/head clearance with my existing combo and there was plenty of gap to play with.
Last edited by AMBROSIA on Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:03 am

AMBROSIA wrote: Do you also have to machine down the bore tops for lobe clearance?
Yes, but if one is handy you can make a cutter from an old T1 lifter.
Has to have a bit of clearance and a bit of a radius on the edge, one bore IIRC needs a lot of clearancing above it quite a ways out.

Do the contact test with bluing or even sharpie marker: It will tell all.
The T4 cams may call out the same "grind", but may very well all have a smaller base circle vs. T1.
(would be interesting to know)

The lifter face has "hard corners" just like the cams, for the same reason, so you definitely can't get too near the edge.

The T1 lifter conversion will be a win regardless: Lighter lifters, and the stock lifter bores are frequently somewhat funky anyway after 40 years.
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Steve Arndt
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Steve Arndt » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:08 am


AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:10 pm

Image

Game over :cry:

Going to speak to stateside tomorrow but the option of machining the case is not viable for me as the cost is too high coupled with his lightweight lifters.
I also don't even see how I can be sure if the web 86a would be suitable and it could easily be another £180 mistake :roll:
Still, at least I didn't try starting it.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:16 pm

Web can grind you a custom cam on the base circle of your choice a lot cheaper.

Could you manage his machining costs with a set of std CB lifters?

Also, Tencentlife has used a variety of CB cams in the WBX with success.
Using 1.4 rockers and high lift on WBX is a bit tricky, but IIRC you have that sorted.
Not all cam profiles are compatible with the 1.4 rockers.(ramps can be to aggressive)

Std base circle looks like 1.15" for T1, reduced base circle cams are usually closer to 1", but having no luck finding a definitive reference.

A call or email to Webcam would probably be far more enlightening.
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AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:49 pm

Using 1.4 rockers and high lift on WBX is a bit tricky, but IIRC you have that sorted.
I have scope in the valve spring setup for .500' and plenty of piston clearance.
Shooting for .500' plus lift was opportunistic as anything over .400' would work well anyway.
I won't lie, i'm very disappointed to be in this predicament but i've only my self to blame.
The reality is this will be a weekend street car, but were I planning to actually race it the machine work to fit T1 lifters would have been done at the start.
Another issue with bush machining will be the lead time which will push the project back further.
At this point I am after a proven cam selection using the solid T4 lifters and 1.25/1.3 ratio rockers.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:15 pm

John at aircooled.net stocks quite a few Web cams, he is likely to have a reduced base circle T1 cam on the shelf.

He runs or ran WBX for many years and will be at least familiar with the lifter diameter issues.

The "shelf" Web86a may work, but it depends on the base circle, it is very likely T4 profiles all run a somewhat reduced base circle vs. T1 profiles.

Personally I'd pick up the T1 bushings and do the machine work myself, but as Fastback noted the aluminum bushings simply press in and the machining required could actually be done via hand clearancing, so needn't cost more than the bushings and a good carbide burr or two, or a self-fabricated cutter that slides in the new lifter bores.
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AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:26 pm

it is very likely T4 profiles all run a somewhat reduced base circle vs. T1 profiles.
I think we can be certain of this now.

Steve Arndt
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Steve Arndt » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:26 pm

I have a Rocky Jennings cam in my 2316 wbx, standard lifters (t4 style, stock wbx), CB 1.25 Rockers, etc. All from Rocky. It basically raises the stock power band by about 500 RPMs. This could be an option (no machine work) setup for you.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:45 pm

A stock MV cam is (timing wise at least) ~=Web 86.

I had Web regrind a stock WBX cam as a 86 intake /1600 DP exhaust.. I really should finish that Miller Cycle motor./..

I found some clean refurbed 1.9 heads at a shop that had them collecting dust for a decade for $75/pair...
(Nice 3 angle valve job and new exhausts even)
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Bruce.m
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Bruce.m » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:27 am

Who makes / sells those alluminium bushes? (Anyone in Europe, if possible)

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:59 am


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