hot start

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hillbillygary
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hot start

Post by hillbillygary » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:09 pm

why won't my 1970 bug won't start when the engine gets hot' it is a stock 1600

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Marc
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Re: hot start

Post by Marc » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:21 am

In the Picture Gallery?

More information please. Does it crank over but not start, or does it not crank?

What do you do when this happens? I'm assuming this isn't something that just happened once and the car's still sitting there.

SC3283
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Re: hot start

Post by SC3283 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:14 pm

if it cranks but doesnt start , are you flooring the gas pedal when cranking the engine?...if not..do it
70, 74 beetle, 81 Chenowth, 66 Fastback, 83GTI, 85GTI, 02 GTI, 72 Std Beetle

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Marc
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Re: hot start

Post by Marc » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:00 am

For either problem, see what happens if you open the engine lid as soon as you shut off = this'll keep heat from building up in the engine compartment, which can cause "vapor-lock" fuel delivery problems, carb bowl percolation, etc., as well as heat-soaking of the starter solenoid which can make it bind if it (or other conditions) is/are borderline.

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volksbugly
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Re: hot start

Post by volksbugly » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:00 am

If you think your fuel starved
Take your fuel pump rod out and polish it with emery cloth. Also make sure your fuel pump is shimmed properly.
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ainokea
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Re: hot start

Post by ainokea » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:38 pm

When the engine is hot does it turn over normally or does it drag to slowly to start. If turns over at the same speed as it does when cold, then you have an ignition system problem not a starter problem, If it cranks to slow, you have a circuit # 50 resistance problem and not necessarily a starter problem. Check the # 50 circuit wire coming out of the ign. sw running all the way to the starter terminal 50. Clean all inline spliced connections or replace them with 10 ga. butt connectors and seal with heat shrink material, there might be one connection under the dash and another under the back seat left side. Next check the ground strap under the car from trans to chassis. make sure the straps contact is clean and solid. While under there check the wire connected to the starter terminal # 50 to be clean and tight. Last you can improve the starter ground by running a length of 8 or 10 gauge wire from the battery negative post to the lower starter mounting stud with a ring connector. Remove any paint first. With the engine hot, chassis grounds will expand and the resistance in old wiring will increase so you will get 10 volts or less at the starter, you need the full 12Volts.

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Marc
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Re: hot start

Post by Marc » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:49 pm

High resistance in the solenoid control circuit (Term 50) will affect whether the solenoid pulls in, but doesn't affect cranking speed - power to the motor comes directly from the battery via the contacts inside the solenoid.

Slow cranking is often caused by a worn starter bushing in the trans bellhousing, so if you still have that problem after ruling out the battery and cabling/ground straps that would be the next thing to replace before buying a new starter. In fact, Bosch requires that a new bushing be installed along with a new or rebuilt starter for the warranty to be in effect.

An Automatic/Auto Stick starter is self-supporting and doesn't need the bushing, so if you do end up replacing the starter you may want to consider going with one of those - they're slightly more powerful as well.

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Leatherneck
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Re: hot start

Post by Leatherneck » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:34 pm

Marc wrote:High resistance in the solenoid control circuit (Term 50) will affect whether the solenoid pulls in, but doesn't affect cranking speed - power to the motor comes directly from the battery via the contacts inside the solenoid.

Slow cranking is often caused by a worn starter bushing in the trans bellhousing, so if you still have that problem after ruling out the battery and cabling/ground straps that would be the next thing to replace before buying a new starter. In fact, Bosch requires that a new bushing be installed along with a new or rebuilt starter for the warranty to be in effect.

An Automatic/Auto Stick starter is self-supporting and doesn't need the bushing, so if you do end up replacing the starter you may want to consider going with one of those - they're slightly more powerful as well.
Marc, what year T-1 do those starters come on?

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Marc
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Re: hot start

Post by Marc » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:31 pm

The "SR17" self-supporting starter was never factory equipment in any manual-trans Type I or III, but all AutoSticks and full-automatics use it, as do 914 Porsches and some IRS Buses. They're rated at .8 HP, compared to the .7 HP of the original SR15 unit.
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Autozone sells a rebuilt one with the same core charge as the SR15, I suppose they wouldn't know the difference if you took them an SR15 core the next day ;) http://www.autozone.com/batteries-start ... icle=false

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Leatherneck
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Re: hot start

Post by Leatherneck » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:01 pm

Great info to know. Thanks for passing this along.

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Piledriver
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Re: hot start

Post by Piledriver » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:47 am

The starter for a ~2000 VR6 or TDi with an automatic comes in a 9 tooth version and is 1.8-2KW.
(lso comes in another version with the wrong tooth count)
Only takes a few moments with a rattail file to bolt into a T1 trans...
...one of the mount holes is slightly offset to prevent such shenanigans, perhaps.

For 091 trans apps (late bellhousing) an adapter is made for the longer reach VR6/TDi manual starter.
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Bruce.m
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Re: hot start

Post by Bruce.m » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:09 pm

Something like .....

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Piledriver
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Re: hot start

Post by Piledriver » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:15 pm

Fortunately it doesn't center on the bolts.
I only remember having to "do" one side but I have slept since then.
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Marc
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Re: hot start

Post by Marc » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:04 pm

Piledriver wrote:The starter for a ~2000 VR6 or TDi with an automatic comes in a 9 tooth version...
Now that's worth knowing! Will need to be on the lookout for one next time I go to the boneyard. Sounds like a good "poor-man's" alternative to the expensive aftermarket gear-reduction units.

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Piledriver
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Re: hot start

Post by Piledriver » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:23 pm

It is in fact a factory gear reduction unit, permanent magnet motor and very compact planetary gearset like the new style t1 starters, just has a ~2X longer motor.

You could probably build a 2KW t1 manual starter by using the 15x front end and the (whatever it is) tdi starter, as the planetary is in the middle looks the same and it all joins up there.

Bosch may even offer something like that, their parts bins are probably bottomless..

Someone complained in a thread on these they needed to cut ~1/8" off the mounting face in a lathe for deeper engagement due to starter grinding, but before I took the file to it (in case it had to go back) I measured the throw and the gear depth was ~identical within measurement and manufacturing tolerance noise to the T3 automatic starter. Maybe he had a worn flywheel....

I had a very intermittent issue with "missed" engagements but a Ford "hot start" relay fixed that, I suspect if the control voltage/current to the solenoid is lame the starter starts spinning before its fully extended.(and it spins like hell)

The ford starter relay makes sure full battery power pulls in the solenoid fast, and throws out the gearshaft.(Bendix?)

This is a pretty good thread, too bad its stuck in the picture gallery.
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