Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:55 pm
SO how about those before and after pictures?
I Think I might have to try some on these steel parts.
I Think I might have to try some on these steel parts.
For Your Air Cooled Pleasure!
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Okay, I'm getting ready to treat my heater channels, so can we review what we/I have learned ? The muriatic acid israygreenwood wrote:I am so sorry Idid not get back to this. Just saw it today. Yes!.....I have done heater channels with acid.
I also used an engine cleaner syophon just like what you are talking about.
I warn you though. be very careful of mist generated.
It also needs to be done during tehheat of the summer....because you are going to need to flush out the heater channels with a garden hose. Water will get into places like the floorboards. Thats no big deal. Just let it drain and leave teh windows down out in the heat...and everything drys and rust films over retty quick. Then using the wand...spray phosphoric acid up into the channels. Rust will bother you no more.
You can even get paint coatings into the channels with this technique. Ray
Is this all I have to doThen
using the wand...spray phosphoric acid up into the channels. Rust will bother you no more.
Yeah, the muriatic will work; however, before you do what you're talking about, take a few pictures of the channels and say a few last words of respect to them because they won't be there for long afterward. Muriatic tends to work for a lot longer than you expect. It's not so bad in a highly exposed areas where you can effectively neutralize it, but it's borderline impossible to neutralize when it's in a confined space.The muriatic acid is quite a bit cheaper than the phosphoric acid. So I was planning on using that. I have my body off the pan (1966 ghia). Want to see how much liquid it actually takes to fill up the channel.
Hey, wait a sec. Rusty heater channel means you have gaping holes everywhere. If you can seal up a heater channel that way it's not a rusty channel. It might have some surface rust but that doesn't necessarily mean bad things. If that's the case, leave it alone. Pour some OSPHO in there if you're really scared of it and then just seal it with Rust-Oleum alkyd enamel or something like POR or Rust Bullet or Master Series.I'm going to take plumbers putty and seal all the bolt holes, foot vent and seams. Measure out a couple gallons of water and fill up the channel with a funnel using the fresh air tube that goes from the heater channel up to behind the dash. Once I determine how much water it takes to fill up completely, drain all the water out.
The tech line is right. You definitely have to seal the metal after you've eliminated the rust. There's no paint on it, remember? And now it has more surface area because of the rust that pebbled the metal, so it'll rust faster than ever. I vote phosphoric acid bath, drain, rinse like crazy, maybe even neutralize with a few gallons of water with sodium carbonate (go to the pool shop), dry in hot weather or with a torch on the outside and a shop vac pulling air through the inside, and then coat with cheap-assed Rust-Oleum. Thin it a bit with mineral spirits and make it last longer. Reclaim what doesn't stick and use it in the other side.Or as you say just use the phosphoric acid and be done with it. I called the tech line for the phosphoric acid and they recommend against just leaving the phosphoric acid as they said rust would return if not treated with a coating of some type.
That's a good trait. Otherwise you'd be looking at a pile of flakes in the shape of a heater channel.Also I have a tendency of over analyzing stuff, thinking something to death, so that I can avoid any unforeseen pitfalls as much as possible. Also I don't want to do more damage than good.
I checked the price on the OSPHO and it was 109.00 a gallon, is that what you paid?hotrodsurplus wrote:Yeah, the muriatic will work; however, before you do what you're talking about, take a few pictures of the channels and say a few last words of respect to them because they won't be there for long afterward. Muriatic tends to work for a lot longer than you expect. It's not so bad in a highly exposed areas where you can effectively neutralize it, but it's borderline impossible to neutralize when it's in a confined space.The muriatic acid is quite a bit cheaper than the phosphoric acid. So I was planning on using that. I have my body off the pan (1966 ghia). Want to see how much liquid it actually takes to fill up the channel.
That is the response I was looking for and I thank you for it.
Water alone won't flush out the muriatic and your chances of neutralizing it in such a confined space with even a highly basic solution are somewhere between impossible and never. Trust me on this one; at $13 a gallon for phosphoric, you could buy 10 gallons and not be where it would take to buy one good-quality heater channel (you can reclaim and reuse the phosphoric over and over too).
I've de-rusted enough stuff with muriatic to know that it's too destructive in anything but highly exposed areas where you can really neutralize it or on very thick material. Diluting it won't reduce the risk, either; it'll just make the stuff work slower than snail sh!t.
Hey, wait a sec. Rusty heater channel means you have gaping holes everywhere. If you can seal up a heater channel that way it's not a rusty channel. It might have some surface rust but that doesn't necessarily mean bad things. If that's the case, leave it alone. Pour some OSPHO in there if you're really scared of it and then just seal it with Rust-Oleum alkyd enamel or something like POR or Rust Bullet or Master Series.I'm going to take plumbers putty and seal all the bolt holes, foot vent and seams. Measure out a couple gallons of water and fill up the channel with a funnel using the fresh air tube that goes from the heater channel up to behind the dash. Once I determine how much water it takes to fill up completely, drain all the water out.
The plumbers putty was just to keep the phosphoric acid inside the heater channel. No there isn't any rust holes(yet).
The tech line is right. You definitely have to seal the metal after you've eliminated the rust. There's no paint on it, remember? And now it has more surface area because of the rust that pebbled the metal, so it'll rust faster than ever. I vote phosphoric acid bath, drain, rinse like crazy, maybe even neutralize with a few gallons of water with sodium carbonate (go to the pool shop), dry in hot weather or with a torch on the outside and a shop vac pulling air through the inside, and then coat with cheap-assed Rust-Oleum. Thin it a bit with mineral spirits and make it last longer. Reclaim what doesn't stick and use it in the other side.Or as you say just use the phosphoric acid and be done with it. I called the tech line for the phosphoric acid and they recommend against just leaving the phosphoric acid as they said rust would return if not treated with a coating of some type.
That will be my game plan and will report back after it is all said and done^
That's a good trait. Otherwise you'd be looking at a pile of flakes in the shape of a heater channel.Also I have a tendency of over analyzing stuff, thinking something to death, so that I can avoid any unforeseen pitfalls as much as possible. Also I don't want to do more damage than good.
Seriously, the phosphoric is a good investment and is very safe. I de-rusted a very crummy tank that's in my wife's baja. After I rinsed the phosphoric I coated it with OSPHO and left it alone. Since it's always filled with gasoline it won't rust--at least rust quickly (stock VW tanks are uncoated). I did this to the tank in my '56 Ford about 10 years ago and this spring I did it to a '32 Ford tank with perfect results--and gennie, dent-free Deuce tanks are way too expensive to risk. It's been sitting empty ever since and doesn't have a lick of surface rust.
Is it wet where you live? Do you drive it daily? If the answers are no, you might want to just leave it alone. A bit of surface rust is totally normal and you may actually cause more problems than you solve.The plumbers putty was just to keep the phosphoric acid inside the heater channel. No there isn't any rust holes(yet).
Lordy no! I remember grumbling that a quart of the stuff was almost as much as a gallon of phosphoric. I want to say that it was $10 a quart at my local Ace or True Value. Boat places carry it too.I checked the price on the OSPHO and it was 109.00 a gallon, is that what you paid?
No I don't drive it daily and it is tore down while I "restore" it. And I knew now is the time to do something to the heaterIs it wet where you live? Do you drive it daily? If the answers are no, you might want to just leave it alone. A bit of surface rust is totally normal and you may actually cause more problems than you solve.
hotrodsurplus wrote:Yeah, the muriatic will work; however, before you do what you're talking about, take a few pictures of the channels and say a few last words of respect to them because they won't be there for long afterward. Muriatic tends to work for a lot longer than you expect. It's not so bad in a highly exposed areas where you can effectively neutralize it, but it's borderline impossible to neutralize when it's in a confined space.The muriatic acid is quite a bit cheaper than the phosphoric acid. So I was planning on using that. I have my body off the pan (1966 ghia). Want to see how much liquid it actually takes to fill up the channel.
Water alone won't flush out the muriatic and your chances of neutralizing it in such a confined space with even a highly basic solution are somewhere between impossible and never. Trust me on this one; at $13 a gallon for phosphoric, you could buy 10 gallons and not be where it would take to buy one good-quality heater channel (you can reclaim and reuse the phosphoric over and over too).
I've de-rusted enough stuff with muriatic to know that it's too destructive in anything but highly exposed areas where you can really neutralize it or on very thick material. Diluting it won't reduce the risk, either; it'll just make the stuff work slower than snail sh!t.
Hey, wait a sec. Rusty heater channel means you have gaping holes everywhere. If you can seal up a heater channel that way it's not a rusty channel. It might have some surface rust but that doesn't necessarily mean bad things. If that's the case, leave it alone. Pour some OSPHO in there if you're really scared of it and then just seal it with Rust-Oleum alkyd enamel or something like POR or Rust Bullet or Master Series.I'm going to take plumbers putty and seal all the bolt holes, foot vent and seams. Measure out a couple gallons of water and fill up the channel with a funnel using the fresh air tube that goes from the heater channel up to behind the dash. Once I determine how much water it takes to fill up completely, drain all the water out.
The tech line is right. You definitely have to seal the metal after you've eliminated the rust. There's no paint on it, remember? And now it has more surface area because of the rust that pebbled the metal, so it'll rust faster than ever. I vote phosphoric acid bath, drain, rinse like crazy, maybe even neutralize with a few gallons of water with sodium carbonate (go to the pool shop), dry in hot weather or with a torch on the outside and a shop vac pulling air through the inside, and then coat with cheap-assed Rust-Oleum. Thin it a bit with mineral spirits and make it last longer. Reclaim what doesn't stick and use it in the other side.Or as you say just use the phosphoric acid and be done with it. I called the tech line for the phosphoric acid and they recommend against just leaving the phosphoric acid as they said rust would return if not treated with a coating of some type.
That's a good trait. Otherwise you'd be looking at a pile of flakes in the shape of a heater channel.Also I have a tendency of over analyzing stuff, thinking something to death, so that I can avoid any unforeseen pitfalls as much as possible. Also I don't want to do more damage than good.
Seriously, the phosphoric is a good investment and is very safe. I de-rusted a very crummy tank that's in my wife's baja. After I rinsed the phosphoric I coated it with OSPHO and left it alone. Since it's always filled with gasoline it won't rust--at least rust quickly (stock VW tanks are uncoated). I did this to the tank in my '56 Ford about 10 years ago and this spring I did it to a '32 Ford tank with perfect results--and gennie, dent-free Deuce tanks are way too expensive to risk. It's been sitting empty ever since and doesn't have a lick of surface rust.