Southwest Wyoming two hours east of Salt Lake City.Steve Arndt wrote:CRVC, where are you located?
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Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
- Daniel G
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
If it was me, I'd try again to diagnose the issue before ruining a '67 decklid, especially one with nice paint like yours. The only time I experience vapor lock in my '66 is in the summer when it is really really hot outside, and I live in AL. Your engine shouldn't be getting hot enough to cause vapor lock in winter...
Is the vacuum advance on your distributor working properly? Is there any chance your carb could be running lean? Could there be a rat's nest sitting on top of the heads under all the tin? I'd explore all the possibilities again. Something isn't right, and propping the decklid open is only covering up the real problem. If that's not the case, are there other possibilities? Could your fuel lines be sitting on a really hot part of the engine? Maybe they need to be re-routed...
Are you 100% sure it is actually vapor lock? Maybe its just a coincidence your problems stopped when you put the standoffs on? Maybe there is some dirt or fine rust floating around in the fuel tank and it clogged the filter temporarily? Maybe your needle valve in the carb was sticking and it just hasn't happened since?
Is the vacuum advance on your distributor working properly? Is there any chance your carb could be running lean? Could there be a rat's nest sitting on top of the heads under all the tin? I'd explore all the possibilities again. Something isn't right, and propping the decklid open is only covering up the real problem. If that's not the case, are there other possibilities? Could your fuel lines be sitting on a really hot part of the engine? Maybe they need to be re-routed...
Are you 100% sure it is actually vapor lock? Maybe its just a coincidence your problems stopped when you put the standoffs on? Maybe there is some dirt or fine rust floating around in the fuel tank and it clogged the filter temporarily? Maybe your needle valve in the carb was sticking and it just hasn't happened since?
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
Thanks for the note. I spent much of last year rebuilding the engine. It was originally a type-3 block that my dad had drilled out for a type-1 dipstick. I had it line-bored with new bearings on the crank and camshafts. New AA pistons/cylinders and new valves and guides in the heads. Also case savers. The fuel pump, carb and generator are new. Plus a new distributor with electronic ignition. I used the larger fan and tinware from a 1973 engine. Also a lightened flywheel. When my dad had the block he put in a mild racing cam. When I put the engine in I was careful to install all the engine bay seals; I bragged that the bug could float like the bugs in that 1960's ad.
In January I took it on its first long drive, from Green River, WY to Manilla, Utah--around 90 miles. It was an unusually warm January, probably 50 degrees that day. It ran perfect but in Manilla I opened the engine lid and got a blast of super-heated air. The paint had burnt off the (new) coil, which I'd gotten along with the distributor. I added some oil and headed back. I got maybe 10 miles outside of Manilla and the bug died. I was stuck in the middle of nowhere with no tools except for a mini-leatherman and a remote starter. I determined that the pump wasn't working and hoped it was due to a plugged (older) fuel filter.
By that time I'd run the battery down. An older couple stopped to help and lent me jumper cables. I took out the fuel filter, hooked their cables to my battery and the engine started instantly. This was close to an hour after it had died. So I make it back home okay but it died again on the edge of town. My wife towed me home the last couple miles and it started up once it was back in the garage.
Each time it died I would use the remote starter to check whether the fuel pump was working. I put in a second new pump but that didn't help. So I determined that the pump would quit working once the engine got too hot but would start pumping again once the engine cooled a bit.
I think the combination of 1680cc jugs with DP manifold, pict3 carb and the custom cam produces more heat than the super-sealed engine bay can dissipate. The problem went away once I put in the standoffs. But I have not yet had the chance for another drive to Manilla. I'm waiting to see whether the standoffs lead to problems once I'm back to driving it in snow or sleet. If that's the case I'll pull the lid and weld vents in. I've found I can weld effectively when the temp is 20 degrees or less and I take my time.
I lived in south Louisiana for 10 years. I had bugs and never had vapor lock. Probably because I was always lazy about putting the engine bay seals back in whenever I needed to pull the engines. VW added vents once they'd increased the engine size to 1600cc. I sorta think they knew what they were doing.
kevin
In January I took it on its first long drive, from Green River, WY to Manilla, Utah--around 90 miles. It was an unusually warm January, probably 50 degrees that day. It ran perfect but in Manilla I opened the engine lid and got a blast of super-heated air. The paint had burnt off the (new) coil, which I'd gotten along with the distributor. I added some oil and headed back. I got maybe 10 miles outside of Manilla and the bug died. I was stuck in the middle of nowhere with no tools except for a mini-leatherman and a remote starter. I determined that the pump wasn't working and hoped it was due to a plugged (older) fuel filter.
By that time I'd run the battery down. An older couple stopped to help and lent me jumper cables. I took out the fuel filter, hooked their cables to my battery and the engine started instantly. This was close to an hour after it had died. So I make it back home okay but it died again on the edge of town. My wife towed me home the last couple miles and it started up once it was back in the garage.
Each time it died I would use the remote starter to check whether the fuel pump was working. I put in a second new pump but that didn't help. So I determined that the pump would quit working once the engine got too hot but would start pumping again once the engine cooled a bit.
I think the combination of 1680cc jugs with DP manifold, pict3 carb and the custom cam produces more heat than the super-sealed engine bay can dissipate. The problem went away once I put in the standoffs. But I have not yet had the chance for another drive to Manilla. I'm waiting to see whether the standoffs lead to problems once I'm back to driving it in snow or sleet. If that's the case I'll pull the lid and weld vents in. I've found I can weld effectively when the temp is 20 degrees or less and I take my time.
I lived in south Louisiana for 10 years. I had bugs and never had vapor lock. Probably because I was always lazy about putting the engine bay seals back in whenever I needed to pull the engines. VW added vents once they'd increased the engine size to 1600cc. I sorta think they knew what they were doing.
kevin
Last edited by crvc on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
- SCOTTRODS
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
I've also heard of a problem where he fuel pump phenolic guid seizes the push rod...... Look up fuel pump push rod as a search item..... Could be as simple as enlarging that bore a couple of thousandths.....
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
I'd heard that too. So when the pump was out I used a drill to widen the channel slightly.
My dad traded me type-2 and type-3 blocks for a type-4 block I had. So now I've got a type-2 block sitting on my work bench. I suppose I could split the case, throw in new bearings and stock camshaft and use everything else from the engine that's in the bug now. IF I did that and it stopped the vapor lock it would prove the cam was the problem. Maybe when my daughters graduate from that damned expensive private college and I get my Subaru back I could consider trying it. But until then I need the bug as my daily driver.
crvc
My dad traded me type-2 and type-3 blocks for a type-4 block I had. So now I've got a type-2 block sitting on my work bench. I suppose I could split the case, throw in new bearings and stock camshaft and use everything else from the engine that's in the bug now. IF I did that and it stopped the vapor lock it would prove the cam was the problem. Maybe when my daughters graduate from that damned expensive private college and I get my Subaru back I could consider trying it. But until then I need the bug as my daily driver.
crvc
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
I think what everyone is trying to tell you; your solution (giant hole) doesn't match your symptoms.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
- Daniel G
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
I'd go over all the tuning again and make sure everything is just right. I think there is something wrong...Standoffs are taking care of the symptoms but not the actual problem. Maybe it is the cam...Maybe you have a defective vacuum canister and your ignition advance isn't working right...Maybe its just all a coincidence that it stopped when you put stand-offs on...
I am just concerned you are going to mess up that nicely painted decklid when it might not be necessary
Plus there are the engine longevity issues if its running too hot all the time...
Here's an idea I thought of...Why don't you go buy some screen material (like for a screen door or window) and some strong magnets and make a cover for the gap the stand-offs make? That should keep the snow out of the engine compartment til you can find the cause of the overheating...
I am just concerned you are going to mess up that nicely painted decklid when it might not be necessary
Plus there are the engine longevity issues if its running too hot all the time...
Here's an idea I thought of...Why don't you go buy some screen material (like for a screen door or window) and some strong magnets and make a cover for the gap the stand-offs make? That should keep the snow out of the engine compartment til you can find the cause of the overheating...
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
Thanks for the suggestions. I have a conference scheduled for next week. I'll be able to take a side trip to see my dad and ask him about the camshaft. Whether it could explain the vapor lock problem. He's worked on bugs since before I was born (1956). One of my earliest memories is him moonlighting at a VW garage and me sleeping in the back of vehicles there for repair. If he doesn't have an answer he might know someone who does.
crvc
crvc
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/k ... CN7805.jpg
Finally got started on adding vents. I'm making a mess of it and the hood is blinding.
kevin
Finally got started on adding vents. I'm making a mess of it and the hood is blinding.
kevin
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
I used a penny and magnet to fill gaps with weld. Sometimes it works and sometimes I end up with larger holes. Then I tried a flattened piece of copper pipe, holding it against the underside with one hand while working the weld gun with the other. Same as above; sometimes it works....
kevin
kevin
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u63 ... 69e850.jpg
95% done. I'm considering adding the VOLKWAGEN emblem above the vents. It would hide the chipped paint.
kevin
95% done. I'm considering adding the VOLKWAGEN emblem above the vents. It would hide the chipped paint.
kevin
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u63 ... 2df1cb.jpg
Only problem now is I think I warped the metal while welding. The visor doesn't seem to fit. At least it's not laying flat like it used to. Perhaps when I start adding the nuts it will slide into position.
kevin
Only problem now is I think I warped the metal while welding. The visor doesn't seem to fit. At least it's not laying flat like it used to. Perhaps when I start adding the nuts it will slide into position.
kevin
- SCOTTRODS
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
That's one of the cool things about metal..... you can shrink and stretch it and get the shape you want again. Just takes some understanding and time....
You probably actually shrunk the metal a little. That's what normally happens in such a patch. Gotta be able to see where things aren't "in line" or are out of whack to try and fix it. A good body shaper guy could probably straighten that thing out to it's best configuration....
You probably actually shrunk the metal a little. That's what normally happens in such a patch. Gotta be able to see where things aren't "in line" or are out of whack to try and fix it. A good body shaper guy could probably straighten that thing out to it's best configuration....
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER
Some pics of My Powder Coating work
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My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
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Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
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Re: Adding vents to a 1967 bug engine lid
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Putting it back on and using the nuts to secure it fixed the problem. There was a little bit of buckling but the metal seemed to stretch back into shape as I was tightening the two 8mm nuts. So hopefully I'm done. I plan a long drive soon to see whether I've actually fixed the vapor lock problem. That was the whole reason for the welding debacle.
kevin
Putting it back on and using the nuts to secure it fixed the problem. There was a little bit of buckling but the metal seemed to stretch back into shape as I was tightening the two 8mm nuts. So hopefully I'm done. I plan a long drive soon to see whether I've actually fixed the vapor lock problem. That was the whole reason for the welding debacle.
kevin