184HP and 187 TQ from a 2270!

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Yep...Today I dynoed the engine for my 550 Spyder and once again have broken the HP barrier for a pump gas 2270!
184.5HP @ 5,500 RPM and 187 LB/Ft of torque at 4,500 RPM. Peak torque was moved up with a camshaft change that i did to compliment the 1200 pound character it will be installed into. This change moved the peak torque up 1,000 RPM from the Hot Vws engine- exactly what I wanted and all while keeping the peak HP at a lower RPM (less than 6K)

I built the engine just exactly as the 2270 "Type 4 Torquer" that we did for Hot VWs. The only thing that changed was Len's new valve job with his new seat and guide machine and one small change with the cam (only on the exhaust duration and exhaust L/C). The same default settings were used on the dyno as the final numbers were taken with from the Hot VWs engine, 140 main and 30 degrees. The carbs were set up exactly the same as the Hot VWs engine, off the shelf Webers!

The engine has 9.55:1 CR, LE 200 heads and a 9500-B camshaft. No trick assembly at all! The best thing is the engine is all done by 6,000 RPM as peak HP is at 5,500!

I assembld the engine just as a customer would assemble this engine kit, with out of the box tuning the engine broke 180HP and 184 on torque!

Gimme 6 months and this will be a 200Hp combination, all on pump gas @ 9:1. I have found the key!

[Santas Brother]

Congratulation Jake.


Does this Magic Key also apply to other displacemnts and combinations ?

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

I don't know just yet.. This was the first time that I have been able to apply it directly with the same combo.

I just ordered 7 camshafts all with a few different characteristics, all based on the 9500 grind master. I plan on swapping these back/back/back and seeing what they do. It'll be a tear down marathon but I believe that one of those cams holds the 200HP mark!

BTW- these changes would not make this engine any less reliable than the engine I drove cross country..

Oil temps never went over 210 and it was 125F in the dyno cell! head temps never went over 325!

[Ephry73]

Geezus Jake. Is it the ignition? Len must have put a lot of hours in those heads.

That is amazing. Congrats for sure.


E

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Nope.. These hads are off the shelf, CNC production units with NO SPECIAL work done to them!

The "trick" is in the "Combo"

As always

4 years ago this exact same combo without the heads struggled to make 155HP. This exact same cam grind was used then and I have all the data that proves it!

[Ephry73]

Gives me something to look forward to when I get money. For now, the 1.7 is what I will go with. No dough.
Jake, Thank you man, seriously! 2.3 liters seems to be that magical number when it comes to engines, and now you'vecreated a new envelope for all of us aircooled Vdubbers.


E

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

The key is very weird.. It's the camshaft (as always with the TIV) but this one is very non conventional..

Not only is it split duration, it's also split lift and on split lobe centers!

[iamstumper]

<--- Wonders how this will affect his 2316 build and if he'll be wishing for a 2270 in the end ....

This is reminding me of my watching PC hardware changes. Soon as you commit to getting a new piece of hardware, a new one comes out the next month making you slap your head and asking yourself, why didn't I just wait?!

Not sure if I should laugh, grimmace or what ... so I'll go with the slow laugh with a gulp at the end

edit:
Meant to add that I love where Jake says that these engines are making its power.

For me, having had a car that didn't feel right unless you were at 7k 9k in the rpm range ... well, in an everyday driven car, it feels completely wasted and had me looking forward to changing cars.

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Here is the graph! As you will note the torque on this one is not as flat as my signature generally creates, but with a 1200 pound application I was more concerned with great acceleration and a broad usable powerband.

This is one sick beast, it's hard to believe that last time I used that cam a few years ago the same displacement engine with roughly the same CR made just over 150HP!

(BTW- The BSFC dip was my fault, I inverted two numbers when I imported the numbers from the fuel flowrator into the spreadsheet and now I'm too lazy to re-do it all as I just noticed I took the screen shot before I caught the mistake. The real BSFC numbers were 51 @ 4500 and 53 @ 5,000 )

[Plastermaster]

That is sick alright!

If I really have 20 HP tied up in my sidewinder muffler, maybe I can catch up! or at least get closer.

I think you have a candidate for the plague, and it dont need no stinkin trailer!

Hows your buddies on the CLF taking this? LOL

Good job man!

[huw'sspeedster]

Len's new valve job with his new seat and guide machine
Is this change standard now?
Huw

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Yes it is.
Your heads as well as all the 2270 Type 4 torquer kits will have the exact same settings and procedures as these..

BUT this camshaft is not available in the kits, the kits are a 100% replica of the "Hot VWs engine"..

[huw'sspeedster]

Thats no worries always an option at a later date if 170bhp and 180lbsft gets to tame!A cam change is an easy upgrade I would rather keep the torque lower at the moment changing from a revvy type 1 to more useable power!

[Wally]

The key is very weird.. It's the camshaft (as always with the TIV) but this one is very non conventional..

Not only is it split duration, it's also split lift and on split lobe centers!

Very 'fun' reading Jake. Really enjoying your online R&D progress!

Would that be less lobe center on the exhaust perhaps?

Tnx,
Walter

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Wally, I did take away 2 degrees of exhaust lobe center...