Poor man's "Super 2"?

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:54 pm

Obviously there isn’t a “Super 2 Liter” kit and it seems rather impractical to create such a kit due to the coatings, clearance required, etc... However is there something that can be done to one of your existing kits to boost the fuel economy? Sort of a poor mans “Super 2”?

The 2270 kits sounds fantastic for power and performance but low 20’s mpg for a daily driver in L.A. traffic doesn’t sound ideal at this point. Would a 2056 or 1911 be a better choice for a balance between economy and power?

On a side note from a topic regarding your “B” transmissions. Can these be made to work with 29-30” tires, or am I just stuck with converting to a Bus transmission?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:52 pm

Most 2270s attain 25-30 MPG... The engine we used on the trip was handicapped by my mistake

That mistake was made during the tire choice for the car, as it was advertised at 25" tall, but turned out to be installed at 25.8" tall, which impacted the RPM Vs speed enough to drop our revs below peak torque at any speed under 80 MPH. This was clearly noted as the key factor when we got the BEST gas mileage of the trip on our fastest leg where we averaged 88 MPH for 67 miles.

I was also more interested with other tests more than MPG for this trip, as this engine was designed for power and not fuel efficiency, so I was constantly on and off the throttle in traffic on the freeway trying my best to keep the average speeds as high as possible as every inch traveled impacted our average speed and I REALLY wanted to average 80 MPH for the entire trip, but 76 MPH is the best we could do...

The "insane" ratings for the Super 2 Liter are just my initial goal, and to do that we needed all the coatings, EFI with direct ignition and hall sensing as well as internal tricks to reduce friction. I have already began the next Super 2 liter that is not going to be as extreme, won't need all the tricks and will still attain excellent mileage. The 2056 in my 912E has gotten OVER 40 MPG on a few occasions, with an average of probably 35 and it was never designed to do that.

The Super 2 Liter is now available in the engine shop as a full build, even though we await actual MPG figures from the first units. I did this simply because of the BSFC numbers and fuel usage we encountered during the dyno session on the first unit, in the car the mileage will follow. The Super 2 Liter will work its way into the Type 4 Store as an engine kit sometime in 2008, as long as it continues to meet my goals...

I could build you a tranny to "B" specs to use your taller tires, but there would be additional charges due to the gears that it would take to get the perfect ratios. If you plan on running tires this tall on a vehicle hoping to get better than mid 20s MPG, the chances start to get slim.. Big tires increase drag and with that goes MPG out the window in general.

BTW- A Bay Window Bus version of the Super 2 Liter has superceded the performance (TQ, HP, RPM range, strength of components)of the ever popular "Powerstroke" combination, so the current powerstroke is being retired after the end of this summer for the new combination-I am building one for my company Bus now to get the best observation of what the end result is...

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:05 pm

Thanks for the reply Jake,

Unfortunately the 29-30” tires are here to stay, I had not thought about the MPG factor of those tires when I was planning the car. But the date is set and the plans are made for a full tube chassis with 3x3 rear dual pivot arms and 2.25x1 K&L front end riding on coil-overs all the way around. I think a set of 25” tires would look a bit odd riding on a mid-travel suspension and not take advantage of what the suspension/ground clearance is going to be capable of doing.

At this point the transmission is an open book since I am not restricted to frame issues or mounting. The Baja Shop can create a mount for whatever transmission I hand them. So would the “B” transmission be the transmission of choice in your opinion with a normal 2270? Should the small displacement engines be considered, or would turning the tires negate any benefit in economy those engines would provide?

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:10 pm

Yea for the Bay Bus Super 2

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:53 am

What kind of driving do you plan on doing? Speeds? How hard do you plan on treating the gearbox?

Torque is what you need, and the best way to get that is with the 2270.

hometownwesty · Post by **hometownwesty** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:31 am

is there more information to be found anywhere regarding the bay super 2, or do we just have to wait?
With all the stuff you're doing, I want to take time management classes from you, Jake.
Because looking at this forum, one would think all you do is chatting on the internet...
And obviously that's not the case.
So will your recipe to fit 48 hrs. into a day be available through your store as well?
Kit form, maybe?

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:27 pm

hometownwesty wrote:With all the stuff you're doing, I want to take time management classes from you, Jake.

Time management from Jake? It's called working 20 hour days. (Yes, he's been known to do that regularly.) Jake is a very ambitious person and the things he gets done are amazing. Unfortunately, I'm a total zombie with 4 hours of sleep, and I get nothing done the next day.

Tuna

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:07 pm

Since I moved away from the shop I have been better about sleep, BUT I still get as much done everyday and do it just as well..

I do stay here one (sometimes two) nights per week to stay ahead of paperwork and phone calls...

I'm about to get the Turbo testing into it's final phase and when i do that things are sure to be so damn amazing that I'll be hardly able to get any sleep at all!