Using the horn part of a anvil; how

General tips/tricks/tools that could be utilized on any platform.

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theKbStockpiler
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:36 pm

Thanks for all the links. I'll check out those swag people vigorously. :D

I would think you could find a used A/C stick welder for a pretty reasonable price used.
Years ago I had the right amount of nicotine ,alcohol , caffeine in my blood supply along with the planets being in the proper alignment :D and ended up building a decent 21" brake. With enough Clamps on it it will do a good job on up to 14 gauge. I bought a set of really heavy duty Hardgrave C clamps when doing 14 gauge because leaser ones would deform. I've wrecked a lot of C clamps in my day. :lol: It's a basically a bench top deal that I use on the floor. I have limited space so everything I have has to be sort of convertible or break down. For a 90 degree you can butt weld pieces together. I also have a Evolution metal cutting circular saw that you can do 45 degree cuts just like a wood saw. If fit up is perfect the joint won't warp as much.

Thanks again for the links! The RR track piece looked like a roll of the dice so I said what the hell after I found one with a sharp 90 degree edge on one side.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:54 pm

I had a stick welder but never could use it worth squat; for some reason the long sticks were just too awkward for me to use; even when using two hands. I gave it to my youngest step-granddaughter's husband.

I have to convert steel gauges to dimensional (14 gauge steel is 0.0747 inches thick) since I worked mostly with AL or other things that are usually referred to as "exotics". The non commercial bending stuff around is limited to the very high "teens" and twenties. Be careful when getting too serious about the non-commercial stuff as so much of it comes in from off-shore and it not of the same quality as was/is produced here under our specs.

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Dale M.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:48 am

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm
I basically wanted something to hammer on and also add to my capacities as a metal worker. Sometimes I would like to be able to bend a curl so a bolt will go through it or make a hook for hanging. Maybe I'll buy a piece of RR track off of fleebay. I bought a HF vise ; the one that the jaws rotate, and the anvil is so soft that if you try to flatten out a paper clip it will put a grove in it. I'm not kidding. :lol: For just clamping it's good but it is not going to hold up to hammering use.

I can't imagine a horn that is good for anything that is flat on the top.
A vice is not a anvil.... A vice is to hold things while bending, cutting drilling and are usually cast iron... Cast Iron vices can be broken vary easily... A anvil is nothing more than a block of steel.... If you just need something to "pound on" go to scrap yard and get a chunk of scrap "steel" ( at scrap yard prices), anywhere from 5 to 50 pounds... Anyone selling you a cast iron anvil with flat horn ( although most anvils horn are not perfectly rounded on top) is gambling the you do not know what a quality anvil is or how to use one, Chinese marketing...

If you really want a "anvil" the two most popular designs are "London'" pattern and "farriers" pattern... Go to some place like Centaur Forge or Pieh Tools and get a anvil weighing in anywhere from 70# to 150#... Be aware a good new anvil pricing start around $300 and goes up from there, Sinc the program Forged in Fire came on the tube, prices have soared out of sight, good used 150# Trenton or Hey Buden amd go as hign as $6 a pound (160 # = $900)

Harbor freight and like places selling small cast iron anvils are not your friend....



Anvil-II.jpg
This is my 100# Vulcan with tool steel top plate and cast iron base, on scale of 1 to 5 in anvil world its about a 3.5 to 4 and has about 70% rebound.... 5 years ago it was $200 used... To day up to $350....

Dale
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Dale M.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:56 am

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm
I basically wanted something to hammer on and also add to my capacities as a metal worker. Sometimes I would like to be able to bend a curl so a bolt will go through it or make a hook for hanging. Maybe I'll buy a piece of RR track off of fleebay. I bought a HF vise ; the one that the jaws rotate, and the anvil is so soft that if you try to flatten out a paper clip it will put a grove in it. I'm not kidding. :lol: For just clamping it's good but it is not going to hold up to hammering use.

I can't imagine a horn that is good for anything that is flat on the top.

A vice is not a anvil.... A vice is to hold things while bending, cutting or drilling and are usually cast iron...
And if you really need to pound on something being held in a vice, you need "leg Vise"


Vise -2.jpg
Cast Iron vices can be broken vary easily... A anvil is nothing more than a block of steel.... If you just need something to "pound on" go to scrap yard and get a chunk of scrap "steel" ( at scrap yard prices), anywhere from 5 to 50 pounds... Anyone selling you a cast iron anvil with flat horn (although most anvil horns are not perfectly rounded on top and you work around sides of horn) is gambling that you do not know what a quality anvil is or how to use one, Chinese marketing...

If you really want a "anvil" the two most popular designs are "London'" pattern and "Farriers" pattern... Go to some place like Centaur Forge or Pieh Tools and get a anvil weighing in anywhere from 70# to 150#... Be aware a good new anvil pricing start around $300 and goes up from there, Since the program Forged in Fire came on the tube, prices have soared out of sight, good used 150# Trenton or Hay Budden or Peddinghaus can go for $6 a pound (150 # = $900) or more... Easier on pocket book to buy new anvil than used today...

Harbor freight and like places selling small cast iron anvils are not your friend....

This is my 100# Vulcan with tool steel top plate and cast iron base, on scale of 1 to 5 in anvil world its about a 3.5 to 4 and has about 70% rebound.... 5 years ago it was $200 used... To day up to $350....
Anvil-II.jpg
Dale
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:58 pm

Basically what Dale is saying is true: for most standard vices, a vice is not a great tools for "slamma-jamma in a Herculean mode" which means both straight on whacking on the platen area or "pinching"/clamping so you can whack away! Even with the home made anvil shapes you can clamp into the jaws of a vice: they are tapa-tapa metal forming things not for using a 400# sledge hammer being swung from a dead-run.

Metal forming is more working the metal into a shape rather then beating it into shape but I guess there are times when ""finesse be dammed" and "full steam ahead" might be the word of the day I guess. Kind of like clamping the metal into a vice then take it to the top of the Empire State building then dropping it off and hoping the assembly lands just right to bend the metal into the shape you want :roll: . Then you open up the "re-tempering" discussion when you over do things (beating and bending; ignoring the same problem with the smoke bending assist of a torch).

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=leg+vise

I had never heard or seen the leg vice before other than in a looser form of it with the woodworking table vice. One of the things (if you look them up to see how they work [pun intended]) is you get the jaws not being square/tilted, because of the locked pivot point on the moving leg as the vice is opens up.

So many ways to do so many things.

By-the-way Dale, you garage work area is too clean! :wink:

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:43 pm

A decent vice should be made of material that is close to that of a hammer head. You should be easily able to work A36 steel on it and it should not easily deform when hit with a steel hammer.

I have a small Fuller Vice that is at least 40 years old. You can hammer a piece of 1/4" A36 steel with it with a 32oz hammer without fear of breaking it. This would be moderate ,controlled blows. I bought the HF rotating vice (with a anvil top) mostly to hold work for cutting with a grinder or reciprocating saws for safeties sake. I would not try to place a bent piece of steel on it and then hammer it straight because it is really soft.It will sustain a lot of clamping force inside the jaws though.

If I want a tight radius bend I put the piece in the vise and smack the steel over until it rests on the jaws of the vice. If I do a bend with hand seamers and the radius ends up too big , I put the piece in the vise , clamp it down in the radius part and then hammer it down. My 21" homemade brake works good but it's not worth getting out for small thin pieces or anything over 14 gauge.

The piece of RR track should be fine for a flat surface to hammer on to straighten bent metal. This is the purpose I need to fill the most. If I find a 50# used anvil someday with a horn I like I'll pick it up. I'll keep an eye on Ebay listings. :D
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:40 pm

"I bought the HF rotating vice (with a anvil top) mostly to hold work for cutting with a grinder or reciprocating saws for safeties sake. I would not try to place a bent piece of steel on it and then hammer it straight because it is really soft.It will sustain a lot of clamping force inside the jaws though."

I bought mine for pretty much the same reason; better access to things without having to twist myself around while doing it. I will admit that I have done a bit of bending of thicker steel in it and I also have had a chip in the jaws now too (not done during bending stuff). The jaws are replaceable but usually expensive as replacement stuff usually is.

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:34 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:58 pm
Basically what Dale is saying is true: for most standard vices, a vice is not a great tools for "slamma-jamma in a Herculean mode" which means both straight on whacking on the platen area or "pinching"/clamping so you can whack away! Even with the home made anvil shapes you can clamp into the jaws of a vice: they are tapa-tapa metal forming things not for using a 400# sledge hammer being swung from a dead-run.

Metal forming is more working the metal into a shape rather then beating it into shape but I guess there are times when ""finesse be dammed" and "full steam ahead" might be the word of the day I guess. Kind of like clamping the metal into a vice then take it to the top of the Empire State building then dropping it off and hoping the assembly lands just right to bend the metal into the shape you want :roll: . Then you open up the "re-tempering" discussion when you over do things (beating and bending; ignoring the same problem with the smoke bending assist of a torch).

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=leg+vise

I had never heard or seen the leg vice before other than in a looser form of it with the woodworking table vice. One of the things (if you look them up to see how they work [pun intended]) is you get the jaws not being square/tilted, because of the locked pivot point on the moving leg as the vice is opens up.

So many ways to do so many things.

By-the-way Dale, you garage work area is too clean! :wink:
But I can find things becasue I know where I put them away...

Dale
Lives his life vicariously through his own self.
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:57 pm

Does anyone know why the horn is flat on some anvils?
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 pm

http://anvilfire.com/21centbs/Selecting-an-Anvil.php

Is this of any help?

https://www.spaco.org/Blacksmithing/Anv ... Anvils.htm

More fun!

(this STF string is already in the "search area" of the web)

Lee

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:47 am

Thank you! I'll check those out.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:27 pm

I see old 'real' anvils have two horns so I think it's a safe bet that they have different purposes. :D I see there is plenty of anvil videos. I guess it will take some time to see a flat horn in use.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:15 am

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:27 pm
I see old 'real' anvils have two horns so I think it's a safe bet that they have different purposes. :D I see there is plenty of anvil videos. I guess it will take some time to see a flat horn in use.
The double horn style is German (European) in origin I believe, the other more popular pattern we see so much is London pattern.... The double horn just gives you narrower table (face) if you are working some thing "U" shaped with narrow opening that will not fit over main face of anvil or you need to maintain straight material and not be curved by working on round horn...

IT mostly about the style you prefer and type of work you do by what pattern you use...

Then there are "sawyers" anvils, bridge anvils, and, and....

Probably best information about anvils or have your questions answered is here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/654532281280478/about/

Want to really drive your self crazy?...

http://lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=anvil

Dale
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:21 pm

Dale, your Vulcan anvil has a non cone (flatish) horn on it. What do you shape with it? :?
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:51 am

Anything.... I work around horn (180°from horizontal to horizontal) and use any part of it that "fits" the shape I need.... It's about using the shape of horn to form you work not making horn fit your work...

You really need to find local smith ( or blacksmithing group) and spend a few hours in a forge to understand all the nuances of anvil use...

Some of what I do... Has not been updated much lately...
https://www.facebook.com/Blacksmith-Ham ... 464819814/

Dale
Lives his life vicariously through his own self.
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"

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