Using the horn part of a anvil; how

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theKbStockpiler
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Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:49 pm

Hi I'm interested in how to use the horn part of an anvil. Some are a cone while others have a flat part on top. How do you work a curve into a piece of metal with a cone? Wouldn't it twist around the horn while shaping with a hammer?
Thanks for your expertise!
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:13 pm

https://metalsmithing.wonderhowto.com/h ... ng-390470/ This is a good start and he says he has other videos too.

As the guy here says, Anvils come in different shapes and weights. I use a piece of rail road track for some heavy duty stuff especially for straightening stuff; also for curves.

I also make small anvils for special forms and shapes that I put in my vice then work the metal to shape.

There are so many ways to shape metal so think things out and don't be afraid to be original.

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by SCOTTRODS » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:34 am

Metal Shaping is an art form. This being said, It is also necessary to do some research into how to make the metal move in ways you want it to. Manually shaping like you are suggesting is more specialized than using machines even, so definitely look at some videos on youtube for metal shaping and using specific tools to see how you might accomplish your finished goals. You'll be amazed at just how many types and shapes of hammers there are to shape things well... and the techniques are also many, even for a specific shape. I've been studying Metal shaping for years and have yet to turn out a finished piece. However I have a lot of tools that I have bought to help me in my learning process.

Generally speaking, most people run into problems after they get the basic "shape" set into their piece, and cannot figure out the finishing part to make it smooth and ready for paint or other finishes.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:31 pm

I agree Scott. The anvil is an old and reliable tool and you can make some delicate things on it. But now days specialty tools like planishing hammers (https://www.bing.com/search?q=planishin ... lang=en-US), bead rollers (https://www.bing.com/search?q=bead+roll ... lang=en-US), body working tools and different types of welding machines (blacksmiths used to join metal using heat and the Anvil together are so helpful. I was beginning to think metal forming was a lost art until in the last 20 years or so the art form make a big resurgence. It is something I wish I could do but life moves on or you go broke buying the tools :lol: .

Yeah, the web is good for somethings but there is the extra stuff that being acquainted with someone who really knows the business can help with! :roll: I've seen good looking stuff only to find out that it is deficient in some parts of the mix.

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:45 pm

IMG_0984 copy.jpg
This is an example of a small anvil I made years ago to form a short/small length of flat stock into a channel. The square of the anvil fits onto the center of a 1" square tube so it is good for forming channel or even a small length of a square itself. By moving things around you can form flat stock into wider dimensions also.

For what it is worth...

Lee
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Dale M. » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:46 am

How to use anvil.... Look up "blacksmithing"... Some good (and BAD) on youtube ... Might try blacksmithing pages on facebook.... There are three things a blacksmith uses, heat (forge) hammer and ANVIL.... Basically a horn on anvil is for shaping "rounds" you use it along with heat and hammer to put curves in stock you are working or open up a circle (as cone mandrel)..... You use horn as typical of what pattern anvil is, most popular is the "London" pattern....

IF you are interested in basic blacksmithing type of metal work.... Good Primmer..

thebkydblacksmith.jpg
Help here...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1645960 ... =bookmarks

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6558197 ... =bookmarks

Another side interest for me...

https://www.facebook.com/Blacksmith-Ham ... 464819814/

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:25 pm

Thank you for all the replies. Part of my confusion was because cheap anvils have useless horns on them that is just there for looks. :shock: I have unlimited data high speed internet now so I can watch the videos. :D
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:18 pm

I'm in the same boat as you are data usage wise; limited gigs of use.

Metal can be worked both cold and hot and even using the same form/device to mold the piece of stock into other shapes. (do a search on "how to shape metal" and you might find some non-video tricks you can download then read at your pleasure.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=an ... &FORM=IGRE

This is just some of the shapes of anvils available. Notice that some of them have square holes in them and that is for other smaller anvils like I showed you that I made to sit in.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... orking-on/

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:51 am

If you look at the shape of cheap anvils the horn does not taper like a cone on the top. You would have to turn it upside down or work the metal at a awkward position like having to swing the hammer up. :roll:
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:07 am

:D :wink: Anvils are not cheap... cost wise that is. The shape of the anvil itself and the "horn" is often "use specific" or so I have been told.

I have a chunk of RR track that my late stepson (who was on a "track gang" for a RR line) had that I use for certain things (don't go out and cut up some track as it is not a good safe idea). I also make smaller shaped anvils, as I posted, that are use or design specific that I clamp into a vice.

The shape of the horn is often use specific as is the platen area of the anvil: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pa ... &FORM=IGRE Also note that the word "anvil" is also used as a part in certain measuring tools

There was some talk about old anvils and their use the other day on the TV show "The Curse of Oak Island"; they were talking specifically about making nails for wooden sailing ships at the time.

What I learned for working/shaping metal was from older (pre WW!! people I worked with) where working metal by hand was more common. It was an almost lost are but there has been a resurgence in it in the last few years. There is also a TV show that uses the forge and anvil but that is more with swards and knives based on what little I have seen of the show and maybe you could pick something on working metal up there.

What are you trying to form?

Lee

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm

I basically wanted something to hammer on and also add to my capacities as a metal worker. Sometimes I would like to be able to bend a curl so a bolt will go through it or make a hook for hanging. Maybe I'll buy a piece of RR track off of fleebay. I bought a HF vise ; the one that the jaws rotate, and the anvil is so soft that if you try to flatten out a paper clip it will put a grove in it. I'm not kidding. :lol: For just clamping it's good but it is not going to hold up to hammering use.

I can't imagine a horn that is good for anything that is flat on the top.
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:52 pm

Yeah, I have the same vice. I have found that it is very handy for some stuff but not so much for other things. Every so often I see an older, good quality vice on Craig's list but then you pay for them too. For instance: https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=vice

There are more sizes, excluding their lengths, of railroad track than one would think: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=si ... &FORM=IGRE With scrap metal prices so high now it is getting difficult to find now. In the URL I posted there are prices for different lengths.

Just in tools now days there are so many tools you can buy to do what you used to do with an anvil that you could easily go broke.

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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:58 am

Basically there are ways to do things w/o specialized tools... up to a point. In 2014 I was having problems with the cheap band saw I had been using since the mid '90 so, after doing some searching I discovered that part of the problem was the band saw's mount allowing things to flex. I ran into a set of plans for a table that even had provisions for liquid cooling (which I haven't added... yet) and modified them for my use. The pictures on my metal band (viewtopic.php?f=49&t=145325) saw have been "Photo bucketed" :evil: .
DSC04849.JPG
Band saw cart finish (6).JPG
This was made w/o using a press or brake press. Are you interested how I did it, if so I will re-post some of the pictures on what it takes to make the pattern and do the bending. It is the little details that are the important part that make the bending easier.

Lee
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by theKbStockpiler » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:07 pm

Well Ebay has one less listing for a 11" piece of Rail Road track, $35 plus $15 to ship. I want to be able to make a 90 degree on thick stock, 12 gauge and thicker. and have something to pound on. The one I bought has close to a sharp 90 on one side. I wonder how it could have gotten worn that way? :D Some one has 8" pieces that have been machined flat on the top and sides but they want $75 for it plus shipping. If it was bigger I would have bought it .
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Re: Using the horn part of a anvil; how

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:12 pm

Do you have a shop press? They are good to have around and there are kits out there to allow you to do some heavy duty bending of material.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sh ... ORM=IQFRBA there are several 20 ton press brake additions here.

Swag is a local guy and I have been tempted but the welding is a problem as I can't weld that thick of metal. Not cheap but will do some heavy duty bending: http://www.swagoffroad.com/20-TON-Press ... _p_40.html

As I said, there are several different grades of RR track and each is for different situations. I'm not sure which is the best but I think my stepson said that some of the track is fairly soft and has specific uses: http://www.icrr.net/rails.htm

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