002 gears on a keyed main shaft

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Bruce2
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002 gears on a keyed main shaft

Post by Bruce2 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:54 am

I've never tried this combination before, but the latest core I took apart had late Beetle 002 gears and an early keyed main shaft. It used an extended tooth slider, but the short stroke shift rod.

Has anyone done this before? Are there any problems to watch for?

I measured the length of the gears with the synchro cones on, and the 002 gears are about .25mm shorter. This tells me there will be that .25mm more end play with the 002 gears.

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dangerous
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Re: 002 gears on a keyed main shaft

Post by dangerous » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:52 pm

I machine the hub, and the 4th inner race to correct the end float.
I also cut a nice radius slot (shallow) in the narrow face that is the new thrust face,
since it is no longer where it was with the 002 hub.

I have seen some galling on these faces, since they are so narrow,
but once the faces are scalloped, and oil holes put in the hub, no problems.

Weddles 'hybrid gears' use this same method,
but from memory, the thickness is a little closer to having correct end float
when installed with the 113 shaft and hub.

Bruce2
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:01 am

Re: 002 gears on a keyed main shaft

Post by Bruce2 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:51 am

When modifying 113 gears to use on a splined main shaft, the stop washer is thicker. Stock is 0.7mm, the thicker one is 1.0mm. Since the 002 gears are .25mm narrower, why the need to make the 113 gears wider with the thick stop washer?

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dangerous
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Re: 002 gears on a keyed main shaft

Post by dangerous » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:28 pm

I find the thicker stop washer to be too much of a change,
even when the splined hub is turn down to the hub thickness,
as described in the Weddle instructions. This means new synchros can bind when in neutral.
Even used synchros can bind.

I tend to use the factory stop washer, and leave the thickness 'up' on size
so I can set the end float using the hub thickness.

I usually start by machining the hub about .25mm per side thicker, and then do a trial assembly.
i.e. when turning the hub boss down in diameter, you stop short,
so the thrust surface for the 113 gear is above the middle web of the hub.

During this process I normally do the conversion to 091 circlips as well,
so it is a bit of a 'juggling act' to get everything at the correct end float
AND tight fitting circlips.

With factory VW main shafts, this usually means 4th gear has too much end float,
and thus the bearing shoulder has to be cut back,
and a thicker '3rd gear circlip' is used on the end to retain the bearing.

Hopefully all the above makes sense.
Perhaps in time I can do a photo procedure on each step.

Bruce2
Posts: 6729
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:01 am

Re: 002 gears on a keyed main shaft

Post by Bruce2 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:28 pm

dangerous wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:28 pm
I find the thicker stop washer to be too much of a change,
even when the splined hub is turn down to the hub thickness,
as described in the Weddle instructions. This means new synchros can bind when in neutral.
Even used synchros can bind.
In the past I've had some gear stacks in the fixture that had a lot more drag than normal. I never noted if they had modified 113 gears on a splined main shaft. You can be certain I will be watching out for this next time.

I had a friend blow out some washers from 20 ga (0.9mm) on the water jet instead of the 1.0mm that ERCO supplies for this conversion. Maybe with .1mm more room it will prevent the problem. And at the same time prevent excessive end play.

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