Mainshaft bearing part number.

[johnwalklett]

Does anyone know the FAG or SKF part numbers for the early and late type 1 main shaft bearings. I know the VW numbers....

113-311-123A and 002-311-123A

but cant find any info on the manufactors part number. I have the numbers off the original bearings but these don't show up on any bearing serches I do... have these number changed over the years?

Trying to sorce these bearings here in the Uk but finding it difficult.

Many Thanks

John

[Bruce2]

It's a lost cause, John. Those bearings have been NLA for many many years. The numbers you got off the bearings are the only numbers for those bearings.

There's a bit of hope though. For the 002-311-123A bearing, substitute the late Bus bearing, 091-311-123. When you use this bearing, you delete the thrust washer between it and 4th gear. You also have to perform a small modification to the gear carrier as shown in your Bentley manual. VW installed this bearing into Type 1 gearboxes starting in 1976. This bearing is also NLA from FAG, but has only recently gained this status. I bought one just last year, but couldn't get one a couple of months ago. There may be stock at your local VW dealer. Have you been calling all the VW dealers in your country? Is there a way for VW in the UK to search all their dealer's inventory?

VW's last price was around $130USD. If you are willing to pay this price, I can locate 002-311-123A for you at VW dealers on this side of the world.

[MattKab]

This is dissapointing news I'm confident there will be something adaptable. 'not looked into this at all yet.

Bruce, do you have all the neccessary dimensions of the bearings available?

FWIW, VW UK parts and service share a database, this is only a small island

I've had a mooch in this, all the late Beetle and Bus, etc. is still on there!, EVERYTHING nla Those days are gone forever.. The longest surviving parts where key blanks, but they're all gone now too.

All the best for the new year.

Matt

[Bruce2]

Don't worry, life goes on. In this case, with a replacement bearing made in China. No thanks.

Same goes for pinion bearings.
Thankfully, I have a lifetime supply of NOS FAG bearings.

Matt, the dimensions are oddball. The OD is 62mm. Standard is 60 or 65. I suppose you could bore out the gear carrier to 65mm. I think the ID is 28mm....

[johnwalklett]

This is sad..

I was after the early type ones with the flange. I have a couple of boxes to rebuilt and would have really liked to replace these bearings.

I have seen some parts suppliers in the states that have them listed in their online store but are these likly to be chinese repro's?

I have some early intermediate housings that have beem machined to take the 091 bearing but this won't fit a keyed maishaft only the splined.

I have some used bearings, but is it okay re-use them not knowing is the box ran quietly?

After the bearing have been cleaned they are quiet but have a little thrust play. What amout of play would deam the bearing scrap??

John

[Bruce2]

You can use an 091/002 bearing with an early keyed mainshaft. All you need is an adaptor sleeve. ERCO and Weddle sell this. The last gearbox I built I installed one of these.

I reuse German MS bearings at every opportunity. What I used to do is to take the plastic cage out, then take the inner race out. Then inspect it with an eye loupe. If there's little or no pitting, it is good. If pitted, it is done.
An old German mechanic I know (trained by VW in Germany back in the 50s) told me that he just cleans them out really good, dries them with air. Then he holds the outer race in one hand and pushes on the inner race with his fingers of the other hand while rotating it to feel the bearing. He duplicates the thrust in operation. If he feels any roughness, it is replaced. Smooth is reused.
I've never thought of checking for thrust play.

I do get the odd customer that really wants new. Recently I have bought an 091 MS bearing, and the early flanged 113 bearing from CIP1. Both were China. They seemed ok, good enough for someone else's gearbox.

[Henryhoehandle]

The problem with Chinese bearings is spotty quality. SOMETIMES they are really good, and sometimes not.

[MattKab]

60mm and 65mm bearings are odd sizes Bruce, 62mm is the standard. What is the depth, ID, bearing type, etc? Bearings are cheap and sit on shelves for years, not likely to make it on to the net. I meant to say, I have some great resources. I see plenty of old German machines getting non-standard bearings made in my job. 'Not too cheap, but it happens. An old Flender gearbox of an extruder most recently.

Matt

[Bruce2]

My mistake Matt. It's not 62mm OD, but 66mm.
ID is 28mm
Width of the outer race is 14.5mm
Width of the inner race is 18mm. The inner race is centered on the outer race.
The FAG bearing number is 524737D for the 002 311 123A VW bearing. It was used from 73 to 76.

The early flanged bearing 113 311 123A is FAG number 515828.
It's OD is 62mm for most of it's width. The flange is 67mm x 3mm wide
Width of the outer race is 17mm
Width of the inner race is 19mm, with the extra 2mm protruding on the flanged side.
ID is 25mm
Used from 69?-72

There does exist an even earlier bearing than the previous one. It's dimensions are the same, except for the width of the inner race. In this bearing, it is 17mm, the same as the outer race's bearing. I'm pretty sure it is used with transmission shafts that have the large nuts on the ends. This is also the bearing used in Berg 5 speeds. I've got one of those in my lockup and will have a look at the FAG number next time I'm there. 1961-68?
EDIT: The FAG number of this bearing is 505916.

The final bearing used in Type 1s is the 091 Bus bearing. It started in 76 and went to the end of German gearbox production. It's diameters are the same as the 002 bearing above, only the width of the inner race is larger by the thickness of the spacer that goes between 4th gear and the MS bearing. I think it is 2.5mm more, but I may be wrong. I don't have one of those to measure.

[MattKab]

Nice one Bruce. I'll take that info back to work, next week No promises..

Matt

[goober]

I know this is an old thread but could someone please tell me how good is the quality of the current (April 2015) crop of Chinese flanged mainshaft bearings. Mofoco and Aircooled have them pretty cheap.

Also, I plan to grind three grooves into the case above the mainshaft bearing to direct and improve oil flow to the bearing. Does anyone see any problems with doing this? Does anyone have a better way to improve oil flow to the mainshaft bearing?

[Henryhoehandle]

I haven't had any trouble with the china bearings, HOWEVER, most of the people here are off road people who do not put a lot of miles on their transmissions. I would like to hear from people who have tried these for a daily driver and see the results. As for improving the oil flow, I am not sure if that is the problem or if it would help much. A new GOOD bearing should last many miles.

[PEPPE]

some months ago i dismantled an Usa rebuilt transaxle for rebushing pinion bore and there was a chinese mainshaft bearing. approximately 30.000 miles, no problems at all, still good.

[Marc]

I looked for some time for a cross-reference from FAG 515828 to SKF, NTN, Timken, NSK etc. and found nothing.

If anyone has an alternate number for the 113 311 123A 25x67x19 bearing this would be a good place to post it.

There's an outfit called locateballbearings.com in Palm Desert CA that carries the Chinese 515828 bearings; they sell them direct, on eBay, and who-knows-where-else at ~$12 plus $9.95 shipping. I've got a couple coming from Amazon, total incl shipping is $17.23 each (2 ship for the same price as one). Not the absolute lowest price I've seen but close, and Amazon's always been real good at resolving any problems - my wife's a Prime member and spends a lot there

I put a Chinese bearing in a used trans (used a puller to remove the noisy one) about 10 years ago and it seemed fine at the time. Didn't put a lot of miles on it before the car got parked with no engine so can't offer a longevity report - but at ⅕ the cost of German, if it lasts 10,000 miles I'll be happy.


Update 6/30: Chinese 515828s from locateballbearings.com arrived today in Priority Mail padded flatrate envelope.