091, T2, T1 Ring and Pinion Comparison

[Casting Timmy]

I’m trying to figure out where T1 and T2 ring and pinions fit in line for strength. I would be very appreciative of anyone that could help change the order or add any ring and pinions that I missed.

091 4.57 G
002 4.86 G or 002 4.57 G or 091 4.86 G
091 5.43 G
113 3.88 G or 113 4.12 O (European Versions)
113 4.12 G
002 5.43
113 4.38 K (8Bolt)
002 5.38 or 113 4.38 G (6Bolt)
113 4.62
113 4.86G
113 5.14VW

Where do these go?
091 6.17
113 3.88 G (Brazil)
113 4.12 O (Brazil)

[Pablo2]

Your list is pretty accurate. I'd make some changes to the way it's listed (partial list below) so as to differentiate between say the 4.37 K (strong) and 4.37 G (weaker), 4.12 O (strong) and 4.12 G (weaker), and 3.88 G (strong) and 3.88 K (weak).

To further clarify, use actual trans type (113, 002/091) rather than general Type I vs Type II classification.

Then of course there are the Brazilian-made 113 3.88 G and 4.12 O, which are weaker than Euro-made versions, and there are 113 4.62 and 091 6.17 ratios.

091 4.57 G
002/091 4.86 G
091 5.43 G
113 3.88 G
113 4.12 O
113 4.37 K (8Bolt)

[Casting Timmy]

Thanks Pablo, I made the changes as suggested but am unsure where to put a few of the ratios. What do you think?

[Pablo2]

We've built many drag race boxes with 091 4.57 G and 4.86 G, 113 3.88 G, 4.12 O, and 4.37 K. Those are good stout R&Ps.

The Brazilian 3.88 can't be drag raced (hard surface, but brittle), but they hold up OK in road-racing (Hewland/Webster) boxes that don't see standing starts.

The 002 5.38 (common to most Type II 1968-'73) was weak, so VW replaced this with the 5.43, using this ratio in most RoW Syncro Vanagons (U.S. market Syncros have 4.86). But guys with tall tires insist on rebuilding with the lowest possible 6.17, which for as dinky as it is, holds up surprisingly well in off-road.

The 113 3.88 K was a disappointment. Because it was a Klingelnberg (and the 4.37 K was so reliable), we thought it would be stronger than the Gleason, but it's not even close.

An even greater disappointment was the 091/1 4.83, which has huge teeth, but proved FAR less durable than the 4.86 in off-road racing. VW scrapped that ratio (but not before installing them in most U.S. 2WD Vanagons).

As for trying to perfectly rank all ratios, it would be difficult (and perhaps pointless). We know which are strongest for each transaxle type, and we know which to avoid .. at least when building a performance transaxle.

I think you should have two lists .. 113 on one list and 002, 091, & 091/1 on the other.

[dangerous]

Factory 002 and 091 ring and pinions are K for Klingelnberg.

The aftermarket China and USA 4.57's for 002 are Gleason.

Albins/Weddle aftermarket are al K's.

I would actually put the 002 K 5.43 marginally/arguably ahead of the 113 G3.875,
and definitely stronger than the 4.125.

I would even suggest the 5.375 bus to be marginally better than the G4.125 from a 113.

...but that is not entirely fair, considering it is a different apple cart.
...thus the reason to separate the bug and bus lists, as Paul suggests.

[Bruce2]

I don't see why you have Type 1 and Type 2 R&Ps mixed up in the same list. Someone with a Type 1 gearbox isn't interested in the strength of a Type 2 R&P and vice versa.

[Casting Timmy]

It's a lot of personal curiousity for me. A lot of people assume that a bus transaxle is a lot stronger than a T1 in all aspects, but the more you learn you see that they share a lot of parts with the 3 and 5 rib transaxles.

There are a lot of street buggy guys around here running early 3 ribs, even 68 3 ribs that replaced a T1 box that was in the buggy. During this upgrade they put on bigger tires as well to try and get back some highway speed but complain about how much they liked the old transaxle better.

So it struck my curiousity a lot as I think some of them enjoyed the buggy more with the T1 transaxle. I should also mention that a good percentage of the buggies here in town are cruisers, and these don't see the dunes or off roading a lot. Just a group of good people that like to cruise together.

I will separate out the lists for future reference, but have enjoyed all the responses.

Thanks
Tim